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A Conservatory for Wales
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Bandidoz
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2705
Location: Berks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around Snowdonia National Park I did see some graffiti around such as "Cymru is not for Sale". I think what's objected to the most is people buying "holiday homes" where they are unoccupied for 95% of the year.
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RevdTess



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2933
Location: Newquay

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Peter wrote:
Tess wrote:
I would hope that if any English bought land in Wales they would become Welsh as soon as they possibly could, culturally and linguistically, otherwise it's just rude.


I thought multi-culturalism was the name of the game these days.

If you changed Wales/Welsh to Britain/British, and English to a one of any number of nationalities, wouldn't you have various bodies coming down on you like a ton of bricks?

Peter.


Maybe so. The difference is that I'm English and I'm talking about the respectful approach I think English people should take if they plan to buy land in Wales.

I'm not talking about what non-English people should do if they plan to come live in England. You might extrapolate my opinion on that... but I think one can afford to be liberal towards those coming into one's own homeland whilst also taking a more conservative respectful line when one is buying land elsewhere.

Of course I can afford to be liberal while my culture has the air of dominance about it. I expect I'd become fairly conservative if 30 million Taleban immigrated to England and started voting for Sharia law.
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GD



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1099
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Peter wrote:
Actually, just looking at the frappr thing:

http://www.frappr.com/powerswitch

Wales does seem to be a powerswitch free zone. The only entry there appears to be CAT, and that isn't a person (obviously). What does it all mean?


There?s theeggman, Billhook, EmptyBee and now Clv101 (and me (ex-pat soon to be re-pat)).

I think also there?s a strong undercurrent of awareness, although full-blown PO awareness isn?t quite there.

Case in point - the Wylfa nuke plant I mentioned earlier: It has long been known that this plant coming offline would put several hundred well-paid industry jobs at risk. During the 90?s there was a search for gas out in the Irish sea with a view of it being pumped onshore to a planned power station. This of course was fruitless, so there?s an undercurrent of awareness of there ?not being any more to find?.
(However, out of town stores are being thrown up like there?s no tomorrow. And the local council is pumping millions into a nice little footbridge project, to try and lure ferry passengers into the failing town centre? Rolling Eyes The latest I?ve heard is there?s plans for a multi-million hotel and leisure resort (again out of town, along the new bypass). I think there could be a purpose built PO commune going cheap in a few years. Lots of land around it also? Very Happy Exclamation )


Blue Peter wrote:
Now you're putting even more hurdles in my way.


Don?t forget BP, you?ve got the wonderful gift of fore-knowledge, so if you think that somehow you?re useless, you?ve got time to work on it! Smile There?s quite a few powerswitcher?s planning on going on a course at CAT next year, why not tag along (if you aren?t already). Or even ask for general advice (I?m sure there?s a powerswitcher who will jot down some questions and get answers for you!)

Bandidoz wrote:
Around Snowdonia National Park I did see some graffiti around such as "Cymru is not for Sale".

?Nid yw Cymru ar werth / Wales is not for sale? ? Is / was a campaign slogan for the Welsh language society. Their grievance is that the number of Welsh speakers (and communities in general) is/was diminishing. And they saw the holiday homes as a cause of it.

Bandidoz wrote:
I think what's objected to the most is people buying "holiday homes" where they are unoccupied for 95% of the year.


Absolutely - you?re not planning on outbidding a local for a home that will stay empty for 9 months of the year round - don?t worry about it.

-----------------------

Apologies Bill, I seem to have hijacked your thread somewhat! Perhaps it could be split off??
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Blue Peter



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, I wouldn't be looking for a holiday home, but I still might be seen as taking some land from the Welsh. Coincidently, there's a sort of related thread on a different forum:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=18295&pid=224715&st=0&#entry224715


Peter.

P.S. What's the Welsh for Peter?
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Billhook



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 820
Location: High in the Cambrian Mountains

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GD -

apology declined - no problem - these are valid concerns that need to be laid to rest -

My two pennorth would be that, if one can generalize about the Welsh, they take people as they find them, and a well-intentioned and courteous person who shows respect will not have problems.

Furthermore, the great majority of the Welsh do not speak Welsh in normal life - in my Great-grandfather's day he, as a schoolteacher, was expected to beat the children if he heard any Welsh spoken . . . .

The reason I put learning the language into the list of considerations was that I see no clearer way of showing respect and so establishing sound community relations from the outset.

regards,

Bill
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GD



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1099
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Peter wrote:
P.S. What's the Welsh for Peter?


Pedr Very Happy
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Blue Peter



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GD wrote:
Blue Peter wrote:
P.S. What's the Welsh for Peter?


Pedr Very Happy


And how is it pronounced? Ped-uh?


Pedr.
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GD



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Close, I would say Pedur.
(or Pederr, as in err said quickly).
EDIT - The thing is, we really pronounce our R's in Wales...
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Blue Peter



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GD wrote:
Close, I would say Pedur.
(or Pederr, as in err said quickly).
EDIT - The thing is, we really pronounce our R's in Wales...


But there aren't any rs in 'Wales' Very Happy

It just gets worse. Not only do I have to be able to do something useful, I also have to be able to contort my speech organs into a form they were not meant to take up Very Happy


Pedrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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theeggman



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 120
Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GD wrote:
Blue Peter wrote:
Actually, just looking at the frappr thing:

http://www.frappr.com/powerswitch

Wales does seem to be a powerswitch free zone. The only entry there appears to be CAT, and that isn't a person (obviously). What does it all mean?


There?s theeggman, Billhook, EmptyBee and now Clv101 (and me (ex-pat soon to be re-pat)).


Yes I'm here, BUT am on the move to Canada sometime soon, see http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1183
I've lived here without any problems and run a local business too, but always made an effort with the language and used bilingual signs, posters, leaflets, etc. As Tess says, it's only polite!
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Pixie



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was brought up in Wales and hope to be able to return there in the near future. Although it's a long time since I lived there maybe I can offer some insights on the Welsh/English thing. In my experience English people have difficulty understanding that Wales is an occupied country and has been for the past 800 years. Despite this, Welsh culture and language is still strong and thriving. People who make no effort to appreciate the culture or learn the (very beautiful and poetic and totally phonetic) language or worse still who ridicule it quickly feel unwelcome, but rarely understand why. I strongly recommend that before moving to Wales any English person learns all they can about British - as opposed to English - history.
As far as being at risk from 'extremists', generally most ill-feeling is directed, as in most rural areas, towards those city folk with holiday cottages who visit occasionally and contribute nothing to the community but have raised local house prices beyond what local people can afford.
Hwyl!
Pixie
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Pixie



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

omigosh! I'm really sorry! I didn't mean to bring this thread to a halt!

If you're interested in joining/setting up a community, take a look at www.lammas.org.uk which gives a very thorough description of a proposed eco-village in south-west Wales.
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Bandidoz
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Berks

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know what they are proposing for "renewable energy"?
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aran



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Gwynedd

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm aware of quite a few people thinking along the deliberate community lines in Cymru, but they're all Welsh-speakers who don't choose to engage much in English-speaking media.

I would strongly recommend that anyone thinking of relocating to rural Cymru gets to grips (in a serious way) with the language. It's already a very sensitive point, and if (as many people expect) life post-peak will see communities becoming more sensitive about who gets to share community resources and who doesn't, I think it's a given that the language will be one of the driving factors here.

Having said that, there is definitely potential for respectful, integrated community building here - and the ability to speak Welsh would certainly improve the extent to which you were able to become part of the community (something which may be a challenge to a lot of people considering tactical re-location, whether here, New Zealand or anywhere else).
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Pixie



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandidoz wrote:
Do you know what they are proposing for "renewable energy"?


Ffi, ffau, ffaw, ffwm... Twisted Evil Laughing

At the moment its all theoretical as they don't actually have any land but as good permaculturists I'm sure it'll be an appropriate mix of small scale wind, solar and hydro. They do hope overall to be net exporters of energy
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