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KFCs closed First sign of apocalypse?
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BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 392
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
fuzzy wrote:
I think the potash was the basis of the chemical industry on the river Tees.
Over in shropshire, it could be slate, or some sort of heated old very hard sedimentary rock, or volcanic eg Dhustone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titterstone_Clee_Hill

We do have very old volcano plugs that were undersea, from the Malvern hills to the Wrekin at Telford.

Our area has very strange geology with some of it Cambrian or even earlier. We were on the very edge of the ice sheets at the last ice age, so lots of meltwater lakes burst, carving very steep valleys, some on top of ridges or hills. I am told we started near the South pole and drifted North, bumping into Canada, Scotland and other places.


"The summit of Titterstone Clee is bleak, treeless and shaped by decades of quarrying. Many of the industrial structures still remain, and contribute to the intimidating and mysterious atmosphere of the hill top, especially during the prolonged winter fogs that descend over these hills."

Sounds a perfect location for shooting some post collapse dystopian drama...... a few pints of Strongarm might take the edge off.


Great place Clee Hill. The last place I lived in the UK was Shropshire and was the best place I ever lived. I went up to the summits of the Wrekin and Clee Hill shortly before I left. Perhaps I did it to say farewell to the UK, I am not sure.

Clee Hill has a quarry where the car park is. There is also a pit half filled with water where a few joyridden cars have been dumped. A short walk are some concrete silo type structures where the Dhustone was presumably graded and sorted. Sheep everywhere even around the industrial ruins. They are apt for the end of the motor vehicle age as not only the dumped cars but also Dhustone is apparently used in tarmac roads as it is very hard wearing.

Cast your eyes up a bit and forget about the ruins and you are rewarded with an excellent view westwards. On top are radar stations. Apparently there is no higher land eastwards until you get to the Ural Mountains.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 898
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
There are Sodium Chloride (salt) mines in the UK. I am not aware of the UK using Potassium based salts on the roads.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35322992


That's my 'home patch' - salt mining has gone on in Cheshire since Roman times...
I think the suffix 'wich' means salt producing, or something similar...
Hence Northwich, Middlewich, Leftwich, Nantwich etc....., doesn't explain Winsford though....
The rock salt from Winsford's mines is mixed with sand to produce 'grit' for the roads.
'Brine' mines pumped steam down to dissolve the salt, which was then recovered at the surface by evaporation....

The brine mines left a massive legacy of subsidence in the area...
If you look at old photos, you can see where whole buildings have disappeared into their foundations....

Salt was also the basis for the Chemical Industry being established in Northwich/Runcorn in the late 19th century....
Reacting Salt with Limestone (from Derbyshire) gives you Soda Ash.
There are still x2 big Soda Ash plants in Northwich - they were ICI for many years, but are now operated by Tata...
Soda Ash is one of the main components used in glass making (St Helens)
It's all linked....
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4687
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well considering how seldom you need to salt your roads using a potash salt which would work as well as NaCl would also fertilize the roadside and ditch vegetation and be easier on the trees. But at $200/ tonne for potash vs. $75/ tonne for plain road salt world market prices I expect they are only putting a lower grade production on the roads.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 898
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Well considering how seldom you need to salt your roads using a potash salt which would work as well as NaCl would also fertilize the roadside and ditch vegetation and be easier on the trees. But at $200/ tonne for potash vs. $75/ tonne for plain road salt world market prices I expect they are only putting a lower grade production on the roads.


I haven't got the figures, but the roads here are gritted fairly regularly in winter, particularly in the north & Scotland.... Not sure if you're aware, but you can go skiing in Scotland....

Why would you want to fertilize the plants (weeds) on the verge ??

Most of the salt runs to the roadside drains, which in the UK generally go to combined sewers and then to Wastewater Treatment works. In some rural areas, it will run to the local watercourse, which will get an increase in chloride levels. Not great for water quality, but in most cases manageable in flowing streams/rivers...

http://theconversation.com/road-salt-is-bad-for-the-environment-so-why-do-we-keep-using-it-87860
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4687
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Well considering how seldom you need to salt your roads using a potash salt which would work as well as NaCl would also fertilize the roadside and ditch vegetation and be easier on the trees. But at $200/ tonne for potash vs. $75/ tonne for plain road salt world market prices I expect they are only putting a lower grade production on the roads.


I haven't got the figures, but the roads here are gritted fairly regularly in winter, particularly in the north & Scotland.... Not sure if you're aware, but you can go skiing in Scotland....

Why would you want to fertilize the plants (weeds) on the verge ??

Most of the salt runs to the roadside drains, which in the UK generally go to combined sewers and then to Wastewater Treatment works. In some rural areas, it will run to the local watercourse, which will get an increase in chloride levels. Not great for water quality, but in most cases manageable in flowing streams/rivers...

http://theconversation.com/road-salt-is-bad-for-the-environment-so-why-do-we-keep-using-it-87860
I would fertilize the roadside grass and shrubbery rather then dry it out and kill some of it with road salt. The DOT I used to work for maintains 9000 lane miles of roads plus shoulders and puts on an average of 19 tons of salt per lane mile each winter , a total state wide of 170,000 tons. Almost all of that drains away to water courses and gets back to Cape Cod or Long island sound. By the time it is mixed with sixty six inches of snow and freezing rain the salinity of the water in the Merrimack and Connecticut is a few parts per billion. There are constant complaints from land owners about the salt killing their trees and ornamental shrubs but ironically the State has to spend over ten million a year mowing and brush hogging the road sides to keep it from turning into forest.
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