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elimination of cash
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banks are often cagey about accepting large amounts of cash without knowing the provenance of it. It could be drug money and they often report such transactions to the police.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cash limits as far as I can see as of today (sources vary):

Belgium: €3,000
Bulgaria: €2,500 (to be reduced to €500 in 2020)
Czech Republic: €14,000
France: €1,000
Greece: €500
Hungary: some restrictions
India: approx. €2,500
Italy: €3,000 (was €1,000 till recently)
Luxembourg is debating a €2,500 limit at the moment
Portugal: €1,000
Slovakia: €5,000
Spain: €1,000
Switzerland: about €92,000 Laughing

Germans and Austria (ordinary citizens, that is, not those morons wanting limits) are dead set against cash restrictions.

WolfStreet.com wrote:
But perhaps the greatest beauty of cash is that it is one of the last remaining things that gives people a small semblance of privacy, anonymity, and personal freedom in their increasingly controlled and surveyed lives.

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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M and s store at local hospital has just gone self service only, no tills, and four of the six points are card only. Two staff permanently on hand to apologise for the queues for the cash tills. Local coop has three self service tills, permanently broken.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be pretty depressing being the girl (for girl it usually is) in charge of supervising the self-serve checkout section in supermarkets. Slave labour indeed.
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Banks are often cagey about accepting large amounts of cash without knowing the provenance of it. It could be drug money and they often report such transactions to the police.


Often is not always and I doubt they have any moral scruples concerning provenance. If the amount is big enough banks are happy to take it if they know that the police have been bought off already so they have a get out of jail free card. Surprised
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Lurkalot



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
I'll go for bartering myself.


I'm more than happy to go there , I already do . I've made furniture and bartered it for clothing for instance and trade my time for the time of a bookkeeper who has helped with our accounts.
The story I told about my customer and her horsebox has made me think however. Leaving aside the sort of restrictions that emordnilap mentions bartering itself must come up against practical limits that would curtail larger transactions. Trading a few days work or a surplus of potatoes or apples is one thing but I would struggle to know what I could barter with if I had wanted to buy that £12,000 horsebox.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
Banks are often cagey about accepting large amounts of cash without knowing the provenance of it. It could be drug money and they often report such transactions to the police.


Often is not always and I doubt they have any moral scruples concerning provenance. If the amount is big enough banks are happy to take it if they know that the police have been bought off already so they have a get out of jail free card. Surprised


Indeed, the banks are making a rod for their own back in trying to eliminate cash or simply alerting other authorities - so much trading of drugs and 'illegal' goods is done in cash, especially on the street corner.

It's the banks that launder these mounds of notes - it forms a huge part of their liquidity.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurkalot wrote:
if I had wanted to buy that £12,000 horsebox.


Sigh. How on earth did we manage before horseboxes? Laughing Laughing
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Lurkalot wrote:
if I had wanted to buy that £12,000 horsebox.


Sigh. How on earth did we manage before horseboxes? Laughing Laughing


My kind neighbour who provides me with tons of manure has a serviceable horsebox. I would guess it is a 500 Euro horsebox. The mind boggles at the level of sheer luxury that would be afforded by a super swish £12,000 horsebox! Does it have wifi and bluetooth and gold platerd fittings?
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for a larf:

You versus the Kardashians
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Lurkalot



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Lurkalot wrote:
if I had wanted to buy that £12,000 horsebox.


Sigh. How on earth did we manage before horseboxes? Laughing Laughing


My kind neighbour who provides me with tons of manure has a serviceable horsebox. I would guess it is a 500 Euro horsebox. The mind boggles at the level of sheer luxury that would be afforded by a super swish £12,000 horsebox! Does it have wifi and bluetooth and gold platerd fittings?


I must admit the price did seem a tad on the high side to me although she had a valuation that placed it nearer £15,000 . The vehicle itself was an N reg MAN 7.5 tonner with a "living area" and space at the back for two or three ponies , carriage and a quad bike and she used it to take horses and carriage to shows and trials , something I've never seen the point of , not that I've ever said that to her? Probably answers the question of emordnilap , horses just walked from one field to the next to do some actual work. Nothing gold plated and certainly no fancy wifi , she doesn't even have a computer at home let alone in the lorry. If anything it was starting to show it's age a bit , only the other week I was up on the roof resealing joints and if she had kept it I was in line to replace damaged linings in the living area.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurkalot wrote:
she used it to take horses and carriage to shows and trials , something I've never seen the point of , not that I've ever said that to her? Probably answers the question of emordnilap , horses just walked from one field to the next to do some actual work.


Precisely. Wink
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the day, horses moved under their own power for relatively short distances.
If they had to be sent any great distance then they went by train.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have up to date figures but a while back keeping a pleasure horse in the USA set you back about $5000 a year and taking it and your wife or daughter to shows with it cost a lot more and if you already have a horse trailer and truck to pull it you might as well have two horses, one for each daughter or wife and daughter.
Horse shows tend to be fifty miles apart and one or two shows per year at each location with paved roads between them so they aren't going to trot to work.
Like Italian sports cars, if you have to ask what it costs you can't afford it. Smile
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Little John



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If cash is formally eliminated, I think it could eventually backfire. The reason being that cash, as much as any other form of fiat, is the way the ruling class maintains control. However, at the edges, people will always find ways to evade detection of their financial activities with something like cash. That is to say, such people still use cash (and so still be committed to it as a form of exchange), but do so in way designed not to be picked up by the system. Nevertheless, most people go along with the formal and traceable use of cash for reasons of laziness, ignorance and general inclinations to compliance.

However, if cash is done away with completely, especially in a climate of tightening economic conditions for a large portion of the population, people will inevitably start to investigate and use a variety of systems of exchange that are completely "off-grid" in fiat terms. Having once done this and found a way to get by, this will set a dangerous precedent since people will then find themselves psychologically freed from the shackles that they have hitherto been held in by fiat.
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