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Update from the Archdruid Greer
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4931
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your wrong.

The media made out that the whole emergence of Greta was a spontaneous thing.

The article shows it was orchestrated by a industry of pr handlers, corporate types and so on.

There are vested interests behind the Greta story which is being hidden by the mainstream media.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Your wrong.


Quite often. But understanding the why is a trait of any good scientist. The information you provided on this particular conspiracy doesn't look like anything abnormal at all.

Call it something other than a conspiracy and I might be right with you.

Lord Bereia3 wrote:

The media made out that the whole emergence of Greta was a spontaneous thing.


What, you are so gullible you figured the media was designed to tell the truth? That is just stupid leading to a poor conclusion on your part, not a conspiracy.

The media made out that peak oil would be terrifying. The media made out that the world was ending back in the 1970's. The media made out that the Brits could barely handle a third rate military power guarding the Falklands. Well...okay fine, they got that one right.

But still, you believing what you are told like a good little robot doesn't make Greta a conspiracy. Was her story hyped? Sure. Do people plan on making some money off fear of climate change among the uninformed masses? Absolutely. Is there a great cabal of media interests wanting to sell you soap while you soak up her story? Sure. Might some of them hope that they can use some make believe celebrity on social media to get a government contract pretending to solve climate change? Sure.

None of this is a conspiracy. It is just how parts of our world work nowadays.

Don't be a sucker.

Lord Beria3 wrote:

The article shows it was orchestrated by a industry of pr handlers, corporate types and so on.


Duh. They do the same thing to convince you to buy their soap.

Lord Beria3 wrote:

There are vested interests behind the Greta story which is being hidden by the mainstream media.


They obviously aren't hidden, as you've providing nicely referenced information showing it was all done above board and in plain site. Do you understand that you can't have it being hidden while proving at the same instant that it is in plain site, published on the web, and available for all to see?

You sure your objection isn't more with society itself, who don't have your perspective on this relatively benign media event?
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4931
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On your final point the only major reference I have seen investigating the vested corporate forces behind the Greta "thing" is Standpoint which IS NOT a mainstream media source.

And on the point of conspiracy, I never called it a conspiracy, somebody else did. However, I do think that the media have deliberately hid the forces and real story behind Greta's emergence.

Anyway, either way, I agree with Greer analysis on it all.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 4073

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is something sinister about Greta. Not the poor unfortunate herself, But the way her show biz parents are encouraging anxiety in an autistic child. Autistic children tend to be anxious, and to encourage this, be it parents or the hangers on who see some advantage to their agenda. Her parents should be protecting her, not putting her up for ridicule.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
On your final point the only major reference I have seen investigating the vested corporate forces behind the Greta "thing" is Standpoint which IS NOT a mainstream media source.


Says YOU. It's on the web, that is about as main stream as it gets as to how people get their information nowadays.

And what "thing" is Greta? The best description I can think of is some viral social media event. There is no requirement in a viral social media event that it be completely organic. Ever. Manipulating things into a social media event is sometimes exactly the point!

Case in point.


Lord Beria 3 wrote:

And on the point of conspiracy, I never called it a conspiracy, somebody else did. However, I do think that the media have deliberately hid the forces and real story behind Greta's emergence.


Deliberately hid is not the same as not reporting on something. "Deliberately hid" makes it sound like they are running around bumping off witnesses, as opposed to what this really means....they didn't give it the attention YOU think it deserves. Sorry, they aren't in the audience of one game. They want to sell soap, and jumping on a good viral social event does that. Pandering to what you think is newsworthy doesn't.

Lord Beria3 wrote:

Anyway, either way, I agree with Greer analysis on it all.


Greer fell for peak oil, and therefore his logic, claims of understanding any science, and ability to process information to achieve a reasonable conclusion is suspect right out of the gate.

As from a writer's perspective, he uses way too damn many words to say what he thinks he means.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Her parents should be protecting her, not putting her up for ridicule.


I've been watching the Facebook response to her being ferried across the Atlantic. Everyone seems quite enthusiastic about her arrival.

I love her "certainly of youth" perspective. "The science says XYZ, therefore XYZ." She walks right into a Dunning-Kruger problem with that one, but it gives her an allure of certainty that folks like, hence the existence of the Dunning-Kruger effect in the first place.

I wonder if she'll only do trains in the US?
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5354
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks RGR that
Quote:
Dunning-Kruger effect
gave me something to look up I had not come across before.
I don't think it was worth a Nobel prize to figure out that stupid people don't realize they are stupid but I am probably underestimating the depth of the problem. Smile
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Thanks RGR that
Quote:
Dunning-Kruger effect
gave me something to look up I had not come across before.
I don't think it was worth a Nobel prize to figure out that stupid people don't realize they are stupid but I am probably underestimating the depth of the problem. Smile


It isn't a stupid people problem, it is a folks who know less on a topic problem, but think that the little they have learned is enough to make declarative statements of truth.

It gives them a wonderful allure of certainty. It also came into play early in the climate debate, I can't pin down when it started but it was bumped into in the 1970's, and by the time the famous Schneider quote happened, it had arrived, and the climate folks knew it, and were trying to find ways around it to their own advantage.

I didn't hear about it until I began dabbling in peak oil, and once I found out what it was it was like a door opened up. Now I got it! I found the fingerprints of the same problem in the climate world later. I'm guessing it happens within any technical topic, it is only when things turn contentious that it becomes an impediment to discussions.
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kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11385
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Thanks RGR that
Quote:
Dunning-Kruger effect
gave me something to look up I had not come across before.
I don't think it was worth a Nobel prize to figure out that stupid people don't realize they are stupid but I am probably underestimating the depth of the problem. Smile


So that's woodburner's problem.

He is one of very few people who would think that Greta's parents are putting her up for ridicule because he is one of those few Trump apologists who see his position on Climate Change as coherent or even intelligent.
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Last edited by kenneal - lagger on Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Thanks RGR that
Quote:
Dunning-Kruger effect
gave me something to look up I had not come across before.
I don't think it was worth a Nobel prize to figure out that stupid people don't realize they are stupid but I am probably underestimating the depth of the problem. Smile


So that's woodburner's problem.


Arguably, it is everyone's problem, in one arena or another. I have come to believe that the higher level of innate intelligence in an individual, the harder it can hit them, as their "smarts" in general works quite well at them "knowing" something better than other folks. Presto...they speak with certainty, whereas a real expert knows where to step carefully, the nuance that the pseudo-expert missed.

Needless to say, I get to observe some pretty smart people on a regular basis, and it might be more apparent to me than some others.


kenneal-lagger wrote:

He is one of very few people who would think that Greta's parents are putting her up for ridicule because he is one of those few Trump apologists who see his position on Climate Change as coherent or even intelligent.


I am not convinced that Don the Con is particularly intelligent. Or even clever, he seems to need a complete suspension of belief among his apostates to even function.

It is, unfortunately, very revealing about a chunk of America that was once assumed to be a small portion of the country. As opposed to a possible heavy majority of one of the two major political parties.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It isn't a stupid people problem, it is a folks who know less on a topic problem, but think that the little they have learned is enough to make declarative statements of truth.

Well, if you have a lot of experience and some IQ then maybe you can 'project' your knowledge into another domain?
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
Quote:
It isn't a stupid people problem, it is a folks who know less on a topic problem, but think that the little they have learned is enough to make declarative statements of truth.

Well, if you have a lot of experience and some IQ then maybe you can 'project' your knowledge into another domain?


Certainly some of us do. There is no requirement on the internet to only participate in one arena.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 4073

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Thanks RGR that
Quote:
Dunning-Kruger effect
gave me something to look up I had not come across before.
I don't think it was worth a Nobel prize to figure out that stupid people don't realize they are stupid but I am probably underestimating the depth of the problem. Smile


So that's woodburner's problem.

He is one of very few people who would think that Greta's parents are putting her up for ridicule because he is one of those few Trump apologists who see his position on Climate Change as coherent or even intelligent.


Just keep on KL. Label me stupid if you want, just because I question the official narrative, which you seem to hold dear. But then you know it for certain. Hmmm, what does that indicate?
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5354
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:

I am not convinced that Don the Con is particularly intelligent. Or even clever, he seems to need a complete suspension of belief among his apostates to even function.

It is, unfortunately, very revealing about a chunk of America that was once assumed to be a small portion of the country. As opposed to a possible heavy majority of one of the two major political parties.

Do not jump to that conclusion. Millions voted for Trump only because he was not Hillary. I did not vote for him (or Hillary) but hoped he would rise to the occasion and do a good job at it. Totally disappointed in that. There are millions of voters in the US that voted for him that are appalled by his actions in office and do not want to vote for him again.
But these voters are now faced with a team of possible Democratic candidates that are unanimous in their cry for greater gun control and even gun confiscation. So they have a choice of voting for the buffoon or voting to have their guns taken away.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 408
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:

I am not convinced that Don the Con is particularly intelligent. Or even clever, he seems to need a complete suspension of belief among his apostates to even function.

It is, unfortunately, very revealing about a chunk of America that was once assumed to be a small portion of the country. As opposed to a possible heavy majority of one of the two major political parties.

Do not jump to that conclusion. Millions voted for Trump only because he was not Hillary.


Absolutely. I've got 2 in the family.

vtsnowedin wrote:

I did not vote for him (or Hillary) but hoped he would rise to the occasion and do a good job at it. Totally disappointed in that. There are millions of voters in the US that voted for him that are appalled by his actions in office and do not want to vote for him again.


Sure. And as we now know, there are quite a few who thought his brand of xenophobia and "bring back white America!!" was exactly what they had been waiting for. And that group? Quite large apparently, and concentrated inside the Republican party. Sort of like the Bolsheviks hiding in the Democratic party.

I think the guy is in trouble myself. The wife is a dedicated, lifelong Republican, and when she starts expressing irritation with asshattery and ineptitude....well...it is quite telling.

vtsnowedin wrote:

But these voters are now faced with a team of possible Democratic candidates that are unanimous in their cry for greater gun control and even gun confiscation. So they have a choice of voting for the buffoon or voting to have their guns taken away.


Gun control isn't the biggest deal for everyone. Important to me of course. I object to the ridiculous idiot schemes of the Club of Victimization and Free Speech Only If I'm Talking gang.

I hate elections, because it is always a choice between the Devil and Beelzebub. Republicrat vs the Democan. Liars versus the prevaricator.
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