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Brexit process
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Cat. Pigeons.

https://www.ft.com


Link is not helpful.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
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Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c29-4f5f-9cb0-130c75a2f7a7

Sorry about that.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c29-4f5f-9cb0-130c75a2f7a7

Sorry about that.


Kink is not helpful! Pay wall!! Precis?
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
stumuz1 wrote:
https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c29-4f5f-9cb0-130c75a2f7a7

Sorry about that.


Kink is not helpful! Pay wall!! Precis?


Dictum meum pactum, so long and thanks for all the fish.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://archive.vn/He3TB

You are welcome
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
https://archive.vn/He3TB

You are welcome


Thanks, Steve.

Bargaining chips flying onto the table again!!
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this is interesting....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836

Quote:
This was an extremely unusual statement - a minister standing up in Parliament to say the government is planning to break international law.

Brandon Lewis told the House of Commons that "there are clear precedents for the UK and other countries needing to consider their international obligations as circumstances change".

That may suggest, says Catherine Barnard, professor of law at the University of Cambridge, that the government is looking at Article 62 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which enables a state to get out of its treaty obligations when circumstances change radically.

But those changed circumstances have to be pretty dramatic - something like the dissolution of Yugoslavia, when a recognised country ceases to exist.

In the case of the Northern Ireland Protocol, it is less than a year since the government negotiated the treaty in full knowledge of the sensitivity of the situation.

And if the government does go ahead with legislation which appears to contradict the withdrawal agreement?

"There is a chance," says Prof Barnard, "that the EU will decide to trigger the dispute resolution mechanism in the withdrawal agreement, which could lead to arbitration and a case before the European Court of Justice."


So the question is, has something "pretty dramatic" happened since the WA was agreed?

Yes, rather obviously. Covid-19 has happened.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1352
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Now this is interesting....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836

Quote:
This was an extremely unusual statement - a minister standing up in Parliament to say the government is planning to break international law.

Brandon Lewis told the House of Commons that "there are clear precedents for the UK and other countries needing to consider their international obligations as circumstances change".

That may suggest, says Catherine Barnard, professor of law at the University of Cambridge, that the government is looking at Article 62 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which enables a state to get out of its treaty obligations when circumstances change radically.

But those changed circumstances have to be pretty dramatic - something like the dissolution of Yugoslavia, when a recognised country ceases to exist.

In the case of the Northern Ireland Protocol, it is less than a year since the government negotiated the treaty in full knowledge of the sensitivity of the situation.

And if the government does go ahead with legislation which appears to contradict the withdrawal agreement?

"There is a chance," says Prof Barnard, "that the EU will decide to trigger the dispute resolution mechanism in the withdrawal agreement, which could lead to arbitration and a case before the European Court of Justice."


So the question is, has something "pretty dramatic" happened since the WA was agreed?

Yes, rather obviously. Covid-19 has happened.


Or, they're forward planning for the dissolution of the UK ?
I've always thought that Brexit is being driven by English Nationalists...
& seen a massive contradiction between hating one Political/Economic union (EU), yet being content to be part of another (UK).
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

I've always thought that Brexit is being driven by English Nationalists...
& seen a massive contradiction between hating one Political/Economic union (EU), yet being content to be part of another (UK).


'hating' 'contradiction' 'driven'

Are you sure you are not a nationalist?

You seem to have all the attributes of divisive language and syntax.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

England 53.38 / 46.62
Wales 52.53 / 47.47
N Ireland 44.22 / 55.78
Scotland 38.00 / 62.00

Let's wait to see what happens....
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
................... seen a massive contradiction between hating one Political/Economic union (EU), yet being content to be part of another (UK).


The same could go for Scotland only to a much greater extent as they will be an even smaller fish in an even bigger pond.

"hating one Political/Economic union (UK), yet being content to be part of another (EU)."

If Scotland does leave the UK does that mean that we can send all those annoying Scots MPs back home? I know that Gordon Brown has already gone but can we send Tony Blair, among many others, off with him, please?
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
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Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
England 53.38 / 46.62
Wales 52.53 / 47.47
N Ireland 44.22 / 55.78
Scotland 38.00 / 62.00

Let's wait to see what happens....


Whatever happens will you, Mark:

Burn down a house because it is owned by an English person?
Put a bomb in a bin to kill shoppers because they are not Irish shoppers?
Would you commit daytime executions and the rape of family members because they belonged to a different spanish political party?
Would you blame almost every political issue that did not go your way, was beecause you were not independent?

Be very, very, very careful what you wish for.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1352
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Mark wrote:
England 53.38 / 46.62
Wales 52.53 / 47.47
N Ireland 44.22 / 55.78
Scotland 38.00 / 62.00

Let's wait to see what happens....


Whatever happens will you, Mark:

Burn down a house because it is owned by an English person?
Put a bomb in a bin to kill shoppers because they are not Irish shoppers?
Would you commit daytime executions and the rape of family members because they belonged to a different spanish political party?
Would you blame almost every political issue that did not go your way, was beecause you were not independent?

Be very, very, very careful what you wish for.


No
No
No
No

Sir, I think you misunderstand my point.
I don't wish for the UK to split - far from it.
I just think it might well be an unintended consequence of all the Brexit shenanigans...
Maybe not immediately, but 5/10/15 yrs down the line....
Possibly hastened along by different approaches to COVID ?
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Brexit process might be used by the Scots Nats in future as an excuse for leaving the UK but Shetland and now Orkney will then seek to leave Scotland if Scotland leaves the UK because they fear for their prosperity if they stay in an "independent" Scotland. Orkney is looking at becoming a Dependency of the UK similar to the Channel Islands. Orkney voted to stay in the UK by 64% in the Independence Referendum.

There is always the chance that the EU might not accept Scotland back into the EU as countries like Spain could veto as they fear provinces like Catalonia would follow Scotland's lead in asking for independence.

As the proportion of Catholics in Northern Ireland increases they might vote to join Ireland in the future anyway so Brexit is irrelevant to them to an extent. The desire to remain in the EU as well might take some of the Protestant community with the Catholic community and reduce the likelihood of UK Nationalist violence.
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adam2
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

various arguments and disputes that had little connection with Brexit, have been removed from this thread.
They may be found in the "off topic" forum.


http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27523
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