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Brexit process
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 11085
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Confused Is not this election primarily about Brexit?


No. The tories would very much like it to be primarily about brexit, but for the Labour Party.....
Yes it is. Though people like you would very much like it not to be


Yougov poll today had the NHS overtaking brexit as the most important issue.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1305
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RevdTess wrote:
While I approve any move against capitalist neo-liberalism, we mustn't forget that the Tories embody this far more completely than anyone else. They dream of making the UK into Singapore-in-the-North-Sea, and we have to be ready to fight this once the EU is no longer a political anchor. Leaving the EU gives great freedom but it could go either way and we could end up with something much worse. I mean, just look at what Trump's been doing.


Exactly.
But the other parties have major flaws too....
Am I weird to want a hung parliament, hopefully leading to a fundamental rethink of our political systems ?
I'm not a LD, but ideally moving us towards something more proportional ?
Or am I in cloud cuckoo land ?
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14598
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
RevdTess wrote:
While I approve any move against capitalist neo-liberalism, we mustn't forget that the Tories embody this far more completely than anyone else. They dream of making the UK into Singapore-in-the-North-Sea, and we have to be ready to fight this once the EU is no longer a political anchor. Leaving the EU gives great freedom but it could go either way and we could end up with something much worse. I mean, just look at what Trump's been doing.


Exactly.
But the other parties have major flaws too....
Am I weird to want a hung parliament, hopefully leading to a fundamental rethink of our political systems ?
I'm not a LD, but ideally moving us towards something more proportional ?
Or am I in cloud cuckoo land ?


No. There are many electoral systems, as we all know. FPTP is not the most common. See here.

Quote:
Proportional representation is the most widely used electoral system for national legislatures, with the parliaments of over eighty countries elected by various forms of the system.


Sortition would be my preference.
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I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 1339
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat on brexit, with his usual sanity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ajM-jcmnU
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 8238
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
Pat on brexit, with his usual sanity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ajM-jcmnU
aye bang on the nail
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kenneal



Joined: 06 Dec 2019
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following vid where a Welsh Labour voter tears into slimeball, Barry Gardner, is also interesting. And the LBC interviewer also picks him up on a few things as well.

Edited for spelling!! Thanks LJ😀


Last edited by kenneal on Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 8238
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal wrote:
The following vid where a Welsh Labour voter years into slimeball, Barry Gardner, is also interesting. And the LBC interviewer also licks him up on a few things as well.
I think your auto-correct may playing up there Ken.... Laughing
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1702
Location: Somewhere on reddit

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
fuzzy wrote:
Pat on brexit, with his usual sanity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ajM-jcmnU
aye bang on the nail


He's now 70 and seems to be posting far less often.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 8238
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
Little John wrote:
fuzzy wrote:
Pat on brexit, with his usual sanity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ajM-jcmnU
aye bang on the nail


He's now 70 and seems to be posting far less often.
Yeah, he looks like he has been ill I think.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 1702
Location: Somewhere on reddit

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just discovered that we have a Monster Raving Loony Party candidate.

Yes!!!!

I needn't spoil my vote after all!
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 1339
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We just have the gang of four [I checked] and we are total tory so I will stay in. If we had a brexit dude, I would go.
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2529
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle wrote:
Up until recently I thought events were running to a script, firstly set up the fall-guy (May) to fail dismally and whip up the public demand for a PM that could "do something", then stage a leadership election with a load of no-hopers to make the victor look like a real winner, make some half-hearted attempts at a hard Brexit which is blocked by Labour, then call a general election appealing for the voters to get behind Boris to give him the majority / mandate to get Brexit "done" and "move onwards".

I didn't realise that the general election could be postponed until after the Brexit deadline.


The final act has played out, and the curtain has fallen.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 11085
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle wrote:
Catweazle wrote:
Up until recently I thought events were running to a script, firstly set up the fall-guy (May) to fail dismally and whip up the public demand for a PM that could "do something", then stage a leadership election with a load of no-hopers to make the victor look like a real winner, make some half-hearted attempts at a hard Brexit which is blocked by Labour, then call a general election appealing for the voters to get behind Boris to give him the majority / mandate to get Brexit "done" and "move onwards".

I didn't realise that the general election could be postponed until after the Brexit deadline.


The final act has played out, and the curtain has fallen.


Yes, we now know how this is going to end. And one really does have to wonder what would have happened had Johnson taken over in 2016 instead of May. She truly f***ed up everything up. And she was warned about the mistakes she was making as she made them.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 8238
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No you don't know how it is going to end and neither do I. Even Johnson does not know I suspect.

One possibility, however, is that as part of the ruling class' ongoing psychological war of attrition against the will of the nation, Johnson is going to spend the next 12 months, free of worrying about needing the support of the ERG or DUP during the "transition period" of watering Brexit to the point of BRINO during the trade negotiations. The only difference being that Johnson had enough venal instinct to know that the only way to win this election was to at least appear to provide a simulacrum of Brexit (or his advisor Cummings did).

I hope I am wrong about that. We will see.


Last edited by Little John on Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2529
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my head is a picture of Boris, wearing a Santa hat, addressing a huge flock of turkeys:

"Thankyou for the mandate, now let's GET CHRISTMAS DONE"
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