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Brexit process
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7026
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just watched it. There is nothing to censor
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 9886
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
cubes wrote:


This isn't the issue. The issue is proroguing parliament specifically to let something happen (and stopping the ability for the elected parliament to have a say)


No, it's letting parliament do what parliament said it would do. ie leaving according to art 50 which they voted for. Simple


Parliament is sovereign. That means it can change its mind. It can make something illegal, then make it legal again, then make it illegal again if it wants to.

If parliament wants to stop no deal - if there is a clear majority for this - and parliament is prorogued specifically for the purpose of preventing that majority from expressing its opinion - then that is a clear abuse of the existing constitution. It would be using a technical procedure to deny parliament its sovereign power, and there would be very severe consequences if it happened, which is why Bercow won't let it happen.

The flipside of this is that half the population believes it is politically unacceptable (in the extreme) for parliament to stop brexit, because Cameron promised that the result would be implemented (and there would be no second referendum).

Quote:

There won't be a queens speech, there will be an election. Parliament will be dissolved, unless people think that labour won't vote for an election.


Indeed. There will be an election. Before brexit. It looks to me like any other outcome just makes the existing crisis even worse. An election is the only way to restore anything resembling legitimacy.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 9886
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-14/u-k-tory-suggests-johnson-could-execute-surprise-august-brexit

Quote:

A senior U.K. Conservative suggested Boris Johnson could take Britain out of the European Union in the next 10 days -- without a deal -- as a surprise maneuver to outflank his opponents in parliament.


Interesting times ahead.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 9886
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/14/labour-bloc-plans-radical-move-to-push-through-brexit-deal

Quote:

Labour MPs opposed to a second referendum are considering a “radical and dramatic intervention” to make clear to Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson they are prepared to vote for a Brexit deal, with one estimating that dozens of colleagues are now ready to back the withdrawal agreement.

Stephen Kinnock, the Labour MP who coordinates around 30 MPs in a group called Respect the Result, said he believed that passing the withdrawal agreement was the most certain way of stopping the UK crashing out without a deal.


I think we can safely describe the current situation as "chaos".
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kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11269
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-14/u-k-tory-suggests-johnson-could-execute-surprise-august-brexit

Quote:

A senior U.K. Conservative suggested Boris Johnson could take Britain out of the European Union in the next 10 days -- without a deal -- as a surprise maneuver to outflank his opponents in parliament.


Interesting times ahead.


Didn't the Gina Millar case stop such a thing happening?
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 9886
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-14/u-k-tory-suggests-johnson-could-execute-surprise-august-brexit

Quote:

A senior U.K. Conservative suggested Boris Johnson could take Britain out of the European Union in the next 10 days -- without a deal -- as a surprise maneuver to outflank his opponents in parliament.


Interesting times ahead.


Didn't the Gina Millar case stop such a thing happening?


No. That case ensured that any brexit deal had to be put to parliament. It didn't say anything about leaving the EU without one.

I think the problem is that the EU would have to agree to the new date, which it wouldn't.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7026
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lib Dems reported to have rejected Corbyn's floating of him being a temporary PM in "unity" government. Also, no Tories are going to back such a move since it really would represent instant political suicide for them.

So, that's not going to happen.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1111
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Bit like being in a supermarket on Friday when a person with a EU badge on their coat was buying a bag of salad.

I joked "you'll be buying chlorinated chicken next!"

No, he replied we'll never buy chlorinated chicken"

"But you're buying heavily chlorinated salad!"

The reply?

No it's not.

You got to give respect to the propaganda dept'

Ironically, it was in the co-op by Senate house, in London.

George Orwell's 1944 used Senate House as the inspiration for the Ministry of Truth.


Did you watch the C4 Dispatches programme - 'The Truth about Chlorinated Chicken':
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/68769-001

Leaves no doubt about why US chicken needs to be chlorinated......
Because it's covered in shIte, pIss, guts, blood etc.
That's what most sane people object to.....

Washed salad leaves may also be chlorinated.
However, they're only exposed to a few bugs from the soil - nowhere near as bad
Still good practice to rinse them though.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 429
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So 350 Million 'Muricans ' are not sane?

Matter of opinion i suppose.

Have a google of the campylobacter poisonings from chicken per 100.000 people US v UK.

Get back when you have found it.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1111
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another typically obtuse reply....

Why don't you 'get back' when you've watched the C4 Programme....
Help...., I'm sinking to your level....

UK must accept US food standards in trade deal, says farm chief
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220

Assume you'd get on well with Zippy..... Smile
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 429
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Another typically obtuse reply....

Why don't you 'get back' when you've watched the C4 Programme....
Help...., I'm sinking to your level....

UK must accept US food standards in trade deal, says farm chief
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220

Assume you'd get on well with Zippy..... Smile


Wouldn't watch channel 4, its a load of leftie nonsense! Very Happy

Don't get the Zippy thing? ( I had a misspent feral childhood mostly spent fishing and dodging police/authorities/teachers) so did not watch much TV.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 9886
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Lib Dems reported to have rejected Corbyn's floating of him being a temporary PM in "unity" government. Also, no Tories are going to back such a move since it really would represent instant political suicide for them.

So, that's not going to happen.


The tories might go for it. Voting for such an entity would be suicide for them regardless of who leads it. LibDem position is more interesting, and just confirms Swinson's total inability to understand what "democracy" is supposed to mean. She leads a tiny party with just 13 MPs, and it is that small because a lot of people deserted it because of a lack of trust. Now she thinks she can dictate who the leader of the opposition should be, thus disenfranchising millions of people who voted for Corbyn's labour party.

She's a disgrace.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1111
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Don't get the Zippy thing?


If you'd read the BBC link......
Zippy Duvall, head of the American Farm Bureau, said US farmers were keen to trade with their British "friends"........
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 429
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7026
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
...I had a misspent feral childhood mostly spent fishing and dodging police/authorities/teachers) so did not watch much TV....


That is literally identical to my childhood.... Laughing

Though I wouldn't call it misspent. I was brought up with all kinds of extended familial problems in the background that ordinarily would lead to a life of crime, but which was completely offset by the fact of living in the middle of nowhere with 20 odd miles of moorland in most directions. So, yes, I was a bit of a daft bugger for a few years. But, I grew out of it and there was only so much crap you could get up to were I was brought up. I have spent most of my adult life apologizing to my poor mother who had to put up with my nonsense when I was a teenager.

I was a very lucky lad.
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