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Horrific solution to feeding too many people
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3721

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject: Horrific solution to feeding too many people Reply with quote

Just seen an article on TV about a Dutch university making a meat substitute from water, soya protein and gluten. Well I would avoid the last two like the plague. The reason given was that with a growing population, it would be impossible to feed them all with meat.

1) 7 billoin people is too many to be sustainable and this will soon be demonstrated when the system collapses.

2) Soya is not a suitable food for animals.

3) Gluten contains undesirable substances. Useful for wallpaper paste, but not for food.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Horrific solution to feeding too many people Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
J

2) Soya is not a suitable food for animals.

.

Soy beans have been eaten by the Chinese for over a thousand years and there are over a billion of them. Apparently as food it does no harm.
But not to worry at $9.50 per bushel vs $5.00/bu for corn or wheat the animals are going to be eating corn.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chinese fermented their soya, but as I understand it, that is not done in our western apology for a culture. Before the Chinese fermented soya it was not considered a food, but a fuel oil source.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
The Chinese fermented their soya, but as I understand it, that is not done in our western apology for a culture. Before the Chinese fermented soya it was not considered a food, but a fuel oil source.

If the Chinese fermented it why can't we?
But whatever? I'll offer this. I'll deed you the rights to my share of the worlds olive and Lima bean crops in exchange for your share of the soybean crop. Smile
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We" don't ferment it as it costs more to do, so in the true spirit of capatilist greed, who cares about the customer?

You can have all the oil and bean crops, more damaging agriculture. In the end it will contribute to the coming disaster, but people have been predicting the end of the world for centuries and it hasn't happened yet.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
"We" don't ferment it as it costs more to do, so in the true spirit of capatilist greed, who cares about the customer?

You can have all the oil and bean crops, more damaging agriculture. In the end it will contribute to the coming disaster, but people have been predicting the end of the world for centuries and it hasn't happened yet.

Well considering what people are willing to pay for "organic produce" I would think there would be quite a market for fermented soya if indeed it is better for you.
If you don't eat any bean or oil products nor red meat just what do you subsist on?
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you get the idea I don't eat red meat? Incidentally it would be possible to live on eggs, provided the poultry were allowed access to pasture and not just fed on grains.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Where did you get the idea I don't eat red meat? Incidentally it would be possible to live on eggs, provided the poultry were allowed access to pasture and not just fed on grains.

Just the impression I got from your first post.
I wouldn't want any restricted diet other then reduced sugar and salt. Also moderation in carbs and over all portion size.
Last nights supper was fried rice with egg and chicken stir fry that had carrots ,onion, celery and broccoli in it along with a dose of soy sauce.
The Boss liked it and I ate too much again but that was not the foods fault. Wink
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a vegetarian of over 20 years standing I feel I out to stand up for soya. It is not the best food in the world, but I would rather eat it than feed it to cattle (which is what is destroying rainforests - along with palm oil).

Fermented soya bean is tofu - which I dislike except in marinated form.

There is nothing wrong with soya - it is a source of vegetable protein even if the balance of amino acids is not ideal for human diet. There is an awful lot of rubbish written on the web about what makes a good or bad diet, and there is no such thing as an ideal diet, and we are all genetic individuals, with a different collection of digestive bacteria in our guts.

When it comes to 7 billion people, we don't have room to be fussy about food. 7 billion is not sustainable except on a very low meat diet, and an active programme of population control, neither of which is likely to happen globally.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
.......7 billion is not sustainable except on a very low meat diet, and an active programme of population control, neither of which is likely to happen globally.


Trouble is the Muslims and Catholics wanting to take over the world by procreation, although most Catholics in the first world have given up on that ambition. We are producing enough food for well over billion it's just that much of it is in the wrong place and much of it is wasted. If transport and preservation in the third world and wastage in the first world could be addressed we could probably feed 10 billion.

But then we have the coming problem of sea level rise taking out much of the world's best food producing areas; The Wash, Mekong Delta, Bangladesh and other river deltas, which will cause a huge food problem and migration.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's bad enough with 7 billion, only sustained using fossil fuel derived fertiliser. As for 10billion, well I suspect a disease catastrophe will occur before we get there, with any luck.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Being a vegetarian of over 20 years standing I feel I out to stand up for soya. It is not the best food in the world, but I would rather eat it than feed it to cattle (which is what is destroying rainforests - along with palm oil).

Fermented soya bean is tofu - which I dislike except in marinated form.

There is nothing wrong with soya - it is a source of vegetable protein even if the balance of amino acids is not ideal for human diet. There is an awful lot of rubbish written on the web about what makes a good or bad diet, and there is no such thing as an ideal diet, and we are all genetic individuals, with a different collection of digestive bacteria in our guts.

When it comes to 7 billion people, we don't have room to be fussy about food. 7 billion is not sustainable except on a very low meat diet, and an active programme of population control, neither of which is likely to happen globally.


Problems of soy, contains:
protease inhibitors - blocks enzymes needed for protein digestion.
phytic acid - inhibits mineral absorption
phytoestrogens and isoflavones - mimic female sex hormones.
goitregens - inhibit thyroid activity.

More can be found by reading "Trick and Treat" by Barry Groves
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Problems of soy, contains:
protease inhibitors - blocks enzymes needed for protein digestion.
phytic acid - inhibits mineral absorption
phytoestrogens and isoflavones - mimic female sex hormones.
goitregens - inhibit thyroid activity.

More can be found by reading "Trick and Treat" by Barry Groves


The Vegan Society wrote:
Soy can affect the thyroid gland in the small number of people who are hypothyroid or who are deficient in iodine. These people should limit or avoid soy until the problem is corrected

Soy's isoflavones can bind to estrogen receptors. This gives the isoflavones all the benefits of estrogen without having all the hormone's influences. Consequently, soy can have positive impacts on women's health and research shows it can offer protection against breast cancer and may reduce hot flushes and wrinkles.

There is significant evidence that eating one or two servings of soy a day can reduce LDL cholesterol.

In terms of digestibility, soy protein isolate has the highest protein digestibility score, and tofu comes just a little under, so there is no need for concern on the digestibility front.

Whilst phytic acid is considered an anti-nutrient it doesn't pose a risk to most people and occurs naturally in a lot of foods.

Generally, it is best to eat the more traditional forms of soy, such as tofu, tempeh, soy milk or edamame (fresh green soy beans from the shell) rather than more processed food because they have a broader range of nutrients and lower sodium content.

A very good reference book that we use a lot in the office is "Becoming Vegan Comprehensive Edition" by Davis and Melina. This is a very well indexed book which links to good quality studies and has a lot of clear and detailed nutritional information for vegans.


We don't use much in the way of soya in this house (and what we use is always organically grown, mainly French-grown) but I have to admit to a weakness for fresh soya beans.

Quite clearly, soy in moderation is immeasurably preferable to eating other animals.
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard that pigeons were supposed to make people ill. Apparently Pakistanis coming here in the 60s used to get ill eating them. One of friends shot a bunch, and so far, I've no problems eating them - the meat is darker, but tastes fine. Ditto for squirrels.....yum... Laughing
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeons will eat anything. I would not recommend eating a pigeon which has been within 50 miles of industrial civilisation.
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