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Jihad Watch
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest reports suggest three bombs in total.
Two in close succession in the airport, and a third one in the last few minutes at a metro station.

All metro, bus and tram services suspended until further notice.

Death toll estimated at 15, but this may be revised.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

latest reports suggest a PROVISIONAL death toll of 28, 13 at the airport and 15 on the metro.
Public transport suspended, Eurostar services to/from Brussels cancelled.
Troops guarding Belgian borders and key buildings.
EU meetings cancelled and buildings closed to visitors.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our pro migrant "friends" have been suggesting that Turkey is not a "safe place" to which to return migrants under UN regulations because its capital, Ankara, is being bombed. Does this not also make the EU an equally "unsafe" place because its capital is being bombed?
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Our pro migrant "friends" have been suggesting that Turkey is not a "safe place" to which to return migrants under UN regulations because its capital, Ankara, is being bombed. Does this not also make the EU an equally "unsafe" place because its capital is being bombed?


Exactly. The mind does boggle doesn't it?
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortunately, I mainly work at home these days. That always helps....
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Friends" in general, Biff, in the press and on TV and on Facebook. I wasn't having a go at you in this case.

I would say that Turkey might not be a safe place for some Kurds but for the rest it's no worse than the EU.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been told by someone rather well qualified to know, that migrants often have a very bad time in Turkey, the Turks only having one objective in mind, to extort, one way or another, as much money from migrants as possible. Of course I'm sure the vast majority of Turks are perfectly decent folk but those that aren't produce the dominant conception in the minds of the migrants.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
"Friends" in general, Biff, in the press and on TV and on Facebook. I wasn't having a go at you in this case.

I would say that Turkey might not be a safe place for some Kurds but for the rest it's no worse than the EU.
Does it actually make a difference if Turkey is less safe, relative to the EU, though Ken? That's a hard, cold question, I know. But does it? I can see how it might under the following circumstances; if there was a huge number of migrants/refugees trying to get into Europe. But, where there was a limit in sight, albeit an extremely uncomfortable one. Under such circumstances, I might be persuaded that the moral imperative to keep them as safe as it is possible by bringing them to Europe superseded any other consideration.

However, I do not believe there is an end in sight to this migrant crisis. Indeed, I think that what we are currently witnessing is just the beginning and, in twenty year's time, the numbers on the move today will look like chickenfeed by comparison. As has been argued on here a number of times, ethically that changes everything. If one does not believe there is an end to this long emergency, then all that encouraging such migrants to come here now does is encourage even more and it will not stop until this part of the world is as f***ed as the part of the world they are migrating from. There is nothing morally superior or worthy in that. Nothing at all. It is no more than a form of national suicide and I cannot support that.
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jonny2mad



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This attack may well be in response to Salah Abdeslam being arrested, he was living semi openly in a islamic enclave in belgium. When he was arrested his supporters attacked journalists because it seems killing 130 non believers makes you a hero .
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clv101
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
However, I do not believe there is an end in sight to this migrant crisis. Indeed, I think that what we are currently witnessing is just the beginning and, in twenty year's time, the numbers on the move today will look like chickenfeed by comparison.

Indeed, so any action proposed need to scale. Germany's million can't become Europe's 50 or 100 million in a few decades time. This focues the solution space on the reasons why people move and working to reduce them.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Little John wrote:
However, I do not believe there is an end in sight to this migrant crisis. Indeed, I think that what we are currently witnessing is just the beginning and, in twenty year's time, the numbers on the move today will look like chickenfeed by comparison.

Indeed, so any action proposed need to scale. Germany's million can't become Europe's 50 or 100 million in a few decades time. This focues the solution space on the reasons why people move and working to reduce them.
Good luck with that (my bold)

Last edited by Little John on Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
I have been told by someone rather well qualified to know, that migrants often have a very bad time in Turkey, the Turks only having one objective in mind, to extort, one way or another, as much money from migrants as possible. Of course I'm sure the vast majority of Turks are perfectly decent folk but those that aren't produce the dominant conception in the minds of the migrants.


Most Turks see Iraqi, Syrian, and Afghan migrants as nothing other then lazy folk who should be doing something about the state of their country of origin (ie at least trying sorting it out) instead of just fleeing and becoming a burden on surrounding countries. I've had plenty of Turks say as such.......
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4337
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://atimes.com/2016/03/europe-is-a-sitting-duck-for-terrorists/

Quote:
Several thousand trained terrorists reached Europe among more than a million migrants in 20154,000 by one account in the UK media, or 1,500 according to NATO Commander Gen. Philip Breedlove in Congressional testimony March 1. In fact, security services have no possible way to verify the bona fides of migrants. The cost of a Syrian passport and passage to Europe is about US $3,000. ISIS and other terrorist organizations can send as many terrorists as they wish to Europe, and a very small cell can shut down a major city.

That leaves the West with unpleasant choices. America has had few large-scale terrorist incidents since Sept. 11, 2001 because it spends $80 billion a year on intelligence operations, including intensive monitoring of Muslims living in the United States, and because it admits very few immigrants from prospective centers of terrorism. American public opinion overwhelming favors less immigration. One poll shows that a majority of Americans support Donald Trumps proposal for a temporary ban on all Muslim immigration by a margin of 46% to 40% (with 14% undecided). Todays events are good news for the Trump presidential campaign.

Europe continues to favor mass immigration on humanitarian grounds. Despite the electoral gains of the anti-immigration Allianz fr Deutschland earlier this month, more than three-quarters of German voters favored candidates who support Angela Merkels immigration policies. The German authorities do not know who the refugees are, and in many cases where they are. According to Germanys Die Welt, thousands of migrants have left refugee camps; at least 7,000 are missing from reception centers in the state of Brandenburg alone. Very few of these are prospective terrorists, to be sure, but the collapse of controls makes it impossible for security authorities to track prospective terrorists.

This does not necessarily imply that ISIS and other terrorists will conduct a major attack every week. The point is that the frequency of attacks is now a matter of the terrorists choice. Mass attacks like the November atrocity in Paris and todays suicide bombings in Brussels establish ISIS credibility. But ISIS does not want to provoke a European reaction; it wants to establish a foothold in Europe so tenable that European authorities will not be able to dislodge it in the future.

Europe has the simple choice of allowing humanitarian disasters to occur on its borders, or losing control of its own security. Germany has already chosen the second alternative, and todays events will have no effect on Berlins attitude towards migrants.


The political and media elites come out with the usual platitudes, but as the above article explains, western Europe is now facing an unprecedented breakdown of security.
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katie Hopkins being as controversial as ever.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-faces-backlash-over-controversial-tweets-implying-refugees-are-to-blame-for-brussels-a6945926.html
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
Yes Biff, that list shows very clearly that :

- the very vast majority of terrorist acts so far this year have been motivated by idiotic religious beliefs, and predominately by muslims,

and also that :

- the vast majority of terrorists are in the source countries for the current migrant crisis.

Together these suggest that islam is a big problem, and that there is a possibility that prospective terrorists may be among the migrants.

Hopefully that was your point Biff; hopefully you weren't just trying to belittle the tragedy that's just happened in Brussels by pointing out that terrorism happens in other countries too.

(you might like to actually make your point clearer when you post links in future, as others here have already suggested, so there's no risk of misinterpretation, and so you don't just look like you're trolling)


I wasn't making any point. I was just providing a list, a list that I thought quite useful and worth sharing, as information is often a good basis for rational discussion. I think it outrageous that you should question my motive and suggest that I wanted to belittle the Brussels tragedy. How could you even think that? Has the hate campaign been that successful? Read what I actually write - don't try to over-interpret.

I do think it worth seeing the Brussels attack in the wider global context and that's why the list is helpful. Clearly, our media focus on events nearest to home but I think it's worth being aware of the totality. Of course the list only includes 'terrorist' attacks and so does not include killings by governments such as US drone strikes, Israelis killing Palestinians, Russians dropping bombs and all the rest.

Of course Islam is a big problem (find a religion that doesn't have its problematic aspects). One of the big problems is that we have a lot of migrants fleeing from the actions of people who call themselves Muslims. But that shows why we should not generalise about a religion.
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