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What guns to buy?
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4713
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject: What guns to buy? Reply with quote

For Christmas this year the Misses and I bought a gun safe as a shared present. She was concerned that as empty nester's which both worked, the house was unoccupied much of the day and burglaries to support opiate habits are becoming more frequent and very local.
So we purchased a safe that holds 30 long guns plus several pistols. Large enough to hold every gun we now own and then some.
But of course nature abhors a vacuum so the question becomes which guns to purchase to fill the empty spaces?
I could of course go to a few shops and gun shows and fill it with run of the mill beaters but I am leaning towards some higher quality weapons of each type that the children might find to be a good investment when they inherit them.
Any thoughts from the east side of the pond?
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6691
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shotguns are relatively easy to obtain lawfully, a shotgun certificate is required to so do ,but is fairly easy to obtain.

Rifles are more problematic, a firearms certificate is needed and this is far harder to obtain. A firearms certificate is only granted if the applicant can show a good reason to need one.

Handguns are effectively prohibited, as are automatic weapons.

Air pistols and air rifles of limited power can be purchased by any adult. More powerful air weapons are regarded as firearms.

So you wont get that much informed advice from over here I am afraid.
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2196
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't have guns for self defence in the UK, so won't be able to give you advice on that aspect.

If you want to take small game for the table I highly recommend the CZ452 .22 rimfire as a cheap, accurate, reliable rifle. Using subsonic ammunition and a sound moderator I take rabbits quietly and efficiently at 70yds, it would do so at 100yds in a survival situation.

My second most used gun is a Beretta A400 12g shotgun that reliably uses anything from 24g clay pigeon loads to 3.5" Super Magnum wildfowl loads, it has a recoil reduction system that really works, and an alloy receiver plus lightweight barrel. It's so light I can carry it all day - pretty good for a gun that will handle the heaviest 12g cartridges you can buy.

You might be looking for a full-bore rifle too. There are many calibres to choose from but I chose the simple, cheap, easy-to-reload .308 . My rifle is a Ruger M77S, tried and tested but primarily very cheap. If you have the funds there are better rifles based on the Remington 700 actions. My Ruger is very light too, it kicks like a mule with full-power loads so not a good choice for a lady. On the other hand, you only need one shot to put a lot of venison in the freezer, so perhaps your wife could live with it.
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the mad cyclist



Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 404
Location: Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30 gun cabinet! I thought my 5 gun cabinet was over kill. Merry Christmas Very Happy
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My standard rifle is my Ruger M77 in 7x57 Mauser. After 30 years of hunting it needs a refinishing job on the stock but otherwise is as good as new. That pretty much covers the needs covered by everything from 243 Winchester to 30 -06. Of course a newer nicer one is always a possibility. Perhaps in 280 Remington. Smile A better 22 is certainly a possibility. Perhaps a Ruger 10/22 for the fun of semi auto can dancing.
For varmints and small game I've often thought of a Sako in .223 or one of the bench rest cartridges like the 6mm PPC with a bit of expensive European glass on it or better yet a night vision scope for night hunting of coyotes.
As to shotguns while I have two modern ones plus two antique wall hangers I could use a good semi auto goose gun.
But I need to save some space for a quality London made rifle or shotgun even though I will never hunt in Africa. Perhaps a 416 Rigby or a 375 H&H.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You yanks buy guns like I buy bicycles. One for every possible occasion, but you can only use one at any given time. Even in Cycle mad Cambridge people think my bike shed is over the top.

Actually, given the rise in burglaries, the gun safe is by far the wisest purchase.

I seem to recall that the first thing a burglar looks for in the US is the householder's gun, so that he can shoot the householder if disturbed.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you don't want to shoot moose with a 22 nor do you want to shoot squirrels with a 45-70. And there are five in the family to arm for opening day. Wink
Your average burglar is not the sharpest pencil in the box but even they look for homes with no people or dogs present as their odds of getting safely away to sell your TV or lap top for their next drug fix are much better.
My daughter got broken into down in Atlanta shortly after she moved and they took nothing because nothing she had was fence-able and portable.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you have a enough guns to arm every member of your family (including children too young to use a gun at present, but who will soon be old enough), and a choice of weapons for different situations, and a FEW spares, I see little point in buying more.

Much more important IMHO is a vast supply of ammunition, if things go badly wrong, you cant have too much ammunition.

Factual accounts from the recent war in Bosnia refer to the need for huge amounts of ammo.
The more sensible and believable fictional accounts of TEOTWAWKI also refer to the scarcity of ammunition in any prolonged emergency.

10,000 rounds per gun sounds a lot but is only 10 rounds a day for about 3 years. Some might consider 100,000 rounds to be prudent, and even more than that if rapid firing guns are available.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Once you have a enough guns to arm every member of your family (including children too young to use a gun at present, but who will soon be old enough), and a choice of weapons for different situations, and a FEW spares, I see little point in buying more.

Much more important IMHO is a vast supply of ammunition, if things go badly wrong, you cant have too much ammunition.

Factual accounts from the recent war in Bosnia refer to the need for huge amounts of ammo.
The more sensible and believable fictional accounts of TEOTWAWKI also refer to the scarcity of ammunition in any prolonged emergency.

10,000 rounds per gun sounds a lot but is only 10 rounds a day for about 3 years. Some might consider 100,000 rounds to be prudent, and even more than that if rapid firing guns are available.

I have reloaded ammunition for years and have quite a bit of supplies on hand.
As to how many constitute a "FEW" spares? Opinions will vary.
Also many here look at quality guns as an investment similar to precious metals or diamonds.
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the uk you can legally get percussion blackpowder handguns, you can get ones to fire legally or ones that would still fire but you can keep as antiques if kept as antiques you don't need to licence them . to fire them you would need percussion caps, gunpowder, and lead balls.


The same applys to any antique flintlock or percusion gun shotgun or rifle and some obsolete calibre, things like the martini henry rifle, some winchesters ect .
There are some cartridge revolvers that use obsolete cartridges, again you don't need a licence . Also you can get hand guns of historical interest but they are hardish to get the licence

They may well change the law soon but thats the state of play at the moment .

its a slightly odd situation because you can have the same gun and if you once fire it you need to have it on a firearms licence for good, but if you don't fire it and its a antique you don't need to licence it .
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jonny2mad



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: weston super mare

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

long term in complete collapse blackpowder has some advantages, ammunition is lower tech .

A boxed blackpowder revolver like a adams colt or trantor or say a flintlock set of dueling pistols will still fire and could still fire in a thousand years.

They are beautiful, one of my best friends deals in high end guns in the uk and I have gone with him to gun shows, and a lot of these guns are just really lovely .

A original kentucky longrifle or a whitworth sniper rifle will still fire, the whitworth at amazing distances. I was talking to my fried when we drove to the last gun show and said I liked the whitworth and he said funny you said that I have one in the boot for sale, I ended up buying a colt revolver at the show but the whitworth is a brilliant old rifle
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
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Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the UK and getting a gun is not a priority although I agree it would have it's uses, but I am curious:

How many rounds can a commercially made gun fire? 10000 rounds per gun sounds good, but will the parts wear precision by then?

I realise you can have 100 rounds per sec rotary automatic, but they are multiple barrels, perhaps without tight rifling as you are just spraying bullets.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
I'm in the UK and getting a gun is not a priority although I agree it would have it's uses, but I am curious:

How many rounds can a commercially made gun fire? 10000 rounds per gun sounds good, but will the parts wear precision by then?

I realise you can have 100 rounds per sec rotary automatic, but they are multiple barrels, perhaps without tight rifling as you are just spraying bullets.
Barrel wear varies tremendously between calibers and mode of use. High pressure & high velocity loads with rapid or continuous rate of fire being the worst offender. Such rounds as the 220 Swift and the 22-250 are known barrel burners especial when shot all day in prairie dog towns. In such conditions 2000 rounds has been known to wear out a barrel. Most other chamberings yield much longer life in normal use and few owners have ever had to change a barrel. For example I fired my 7x57 Ruger over a 1000 rounds the first year I owned it but now as I have gotten older I carry it only a few days a year and often shoot it less then ten rounds per year. I will never wear it out as I doubt I have a total of 2000 rounds through it and not enough hunting seasons left in my life.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
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Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks VT, you guys tell me stuff I could never experience over here. I have never wanted guns to be widespread in the UK in my life so far, but I increasingly think they make sense under some different situations - food shortages etc.

I have considered some cheap antique spring rabbit traps [illegal too], that could be reinstated... any thoughts?
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4713
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonny2mad wrote:
long term in complete collapse blackpowder has some advantages, ammunition is lower tech .

A boxed blackpowder revolver like a adams colt or trantor or say a flintlock set of dueling pistols will still fire and could still fire in a thousand years.

They are beautiful, one of my best friends deals in high end guns in the uk and I have gone with him to gun shows, and a lot of these guns are just really lovely .

A original kentucky longrifle or a whitworth sniper rifle will still fire, the whitworth at amazing distances. I was talking to my fried when we drove to the last gun show and said I liked the whitworth and he said funny you said that I have one in the boot for sale, I ended up buying a colt revolver at the show but the whitworth is a brilliant old rifle

Getting reliable ignition with a flintlock is a skill that takes a lot of practice. A percussion cap rifle or revolver is quite an improvement but still needs practice to get it to go off when needed. And then you are dependent on a supply of percussion caps. They are cheap and easy to come by now but you would not want to try making your own in a survival situation. As 22 long rifles are also cheap and store well that would be my end of the world stockpile. I've got 500 or so kicking around here somewhere. Might lay in a case or two the next time the gun panic dies down here.
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