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EU membership referendum debate thread
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:

I then put the video on again and fell asleep mainly to be fair because I am a bit drunk and quite tired.


Maybe if you've sobered up by now, you might care to watch the whole lecture and Q&A session and then make constructive comments.

I rather think that for you to accept the truth of Varoufakis's comments you will first need to alter the political paradigm through which you see the world. The implications of his comments are just too profound for supporters of mainstream politicians.


+1
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EU referendum: Yanis Varoufakis says Britons should vote to stay in union (and he's right) http://gu.com/p/4dthb/stw

(But then he calls himself a Marxist.)
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Snail



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
George Galloway ‏@georgegalloway
I believe in Europe and the Union of its peoples. But I cannot support THIS European Union #Greece #Portugal #coup
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1789

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AEP: Eurozone crosses Rubicon as Portugal's anti-Euro left banned from power

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard wrote:
Greeces Syriza movement, Europes first radical-Left government in Europe since the Second World War, was crushed into submission for daring to confront eurozone ideology. Now the Portuguese Left is running into a variant of the same meat-grinder.

Europes socialists face a dilemma. They are at last waking up to the unpleasant truth that monetary union is an authoritarian Right-wing enterprise that has slipped its democratic leash, yet if they act on this insight in any way they risk being prevented from taking power.

Brussels really has created a monster.


This is a very dangerous precedent.

The time for being able to reform the EU from within has passed.
It has become an autocratic nightmare
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AutomaticEarth



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with this - Europe is indeed on a downward spiral:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/11949091/Jean-Claude-Juncker-is-right.-Europe-is-dying.html
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AutomaticEarth



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry meant to say the EU was in a downward spiral Very Happy
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great interview with Yanis Varoufakis. I bet JohnH won't like it.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/yanis-varoufakis-alex-sakalis/one-very-simple-but-radical-idea-to-democratise-eur


And in case you missed it, here's his lecture from Portugal. He repeated it in Oxford a couple of days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNN9U65-HI&feature=youtu.be&a
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
Great interview with Yanis Varoufakis. I bet JohnH won't like it.

If the idea is having pan-European political parties.

a) There is nothing wrong with that.
b) To some extent they already exist.

The problem with the structure within the Eurozone is that there is a democratic disconnect. Hence there is no need for the decisions to be explained through the democratic process because the democratic process does not have enough power.

Power at the end of the day is "hire and fire". It applies to EU commissioners as much as anyone else.

No one has told me what the major revelations are from Varoufakis. I presume there aren't any.

Revealing that the EU is dysfunctional from a democratic perspective is not a "revelation" is has been the case for a long long time.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been the case, however, that open debate of those democratic dysfunctionalities has been significantly and deliberately limited other than on the fringes of the MSM or, at best, at the intellectual level of the red tops, at least in the open.

It is only now that a serious and high level semi-public debate is being had about the underlying structural democratic flaws in the EU. Even then, the UK MSM is still firmly biased to one side of that debate. Though, that bias is weakening under external realpolitik pressure.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is more that the people who work in the MSM are bored about this and don't think their readers are interested.

Actually a lot of people are interested. However, they then have to find their own sources of information.
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:

Revealing that the EU is dysfunctional from a democratic perspective is not a "revelation" is has been the case for a long long time.


It is dysfunctional from all perspectives. Decision and policy making is dysfunctional, whether it is regarding the migrant crisis, the monetary union, the fishing industry, the agriculture policy. It's all dysfunctional, as well as bloated and corrupt.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But who actually read the interview?
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/yanis-varoufakis-alex-sakalis/one-very-simple-but-radical-idea-to-democratise-eur
It presents some pretty powerful arguments about the UK/EU relationship.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is too long and he normally talks rubbish so I don't want to spend any time on it. Is there anything specifically you think is important?
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. But as I said, you'd need a paradigm shift to understand it, and not being bothered to read it shows the shift hasn't happened yet. Sad

Meanwhile, you might read what James Galbraith and his mate wrote a few months ago: https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/james-galbraith-yanis-varoufakis/whither-europe-modest-camp-vs-federalist-austeri
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could give you lots of things to read, but I would also be happy to explain what I think is important about it.

I don't mind debating things, but I am not going to waste my time doing critiques of Varoufakis - I note he is having some of his speaker's fees sent to Oman.
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