PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

KSA Watch
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7548
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is starting to stink of a Yank False Flag operation to give the pretext for attacking Iran that they have been desperate for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7572
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
It's remarkable how little attention this attack is getting in the global media. Something of this magnitude has never happened before, we certainly haven't seen the last of the short term impact and in the long term it's realised a long held concern over their infrastructure vulnerability.


The media, and their customers and in many cases the advertising sponsors require novelty in news reports.
These attacks got a fair amount of media coverage when "new news" but they are now "yesterdays news" and worthy of relatively little coverage until another attack, or military retaliation occurs.

I agree that we have not yet seen the end of this. From the POV of the perpetrators, these attacks were a great success and therefore well worth repeating.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BritDownUnder



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 619
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
MoA: Damage at Saudi Oil Plant points to well targeted swarm attack


This 'swarm' theory may be better suited to low tech 'drones' in large numbers rather than high tech and cost cruise missiles in few numbers given the supposed precision of the attacks.

Looks to me that the intent may have been to cut the Saudi East-West pipeline thereby cutting exports from the 'safer' Red Sea ports to Europe. The Asian destined production was left unharmed.

It would be interesting to think about how effective a swarm attack made by a modern version of 100 German V1 flying bombs with GPS guidance attacking at once perhaps. What kind of air defence system could cope with attacks by these things?
Perhaps some kind of GPS signal cancelling equipment should be deployed by the Saudis assuming military GPS systems can also be jammed by these things.
Another form of defence may be the Goalkeeper CIWS rapid fire system that is found on ships for point defence protection against flying things. A screen around all Saudi oil facilities coupled with a no fly zone and GPS jamming may be the solution to this particular problem.

I can see the midnight oil being burnt at BAE Systems and Raytheon and similar companies on finding a solution to this problem. That'll be US$100bn thank you Mr Saudi oil prince. Just a week's oil earnings. Kaching! Kaching!

Probably not an inside job or even false flag but very cleverly done especially if it was done with ten drones costing $1200 each.
_________________
G'Day cobber!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7572
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have completed my panic buying.
40 liters of paraffin, in addition to existing stocks.
2 propane cylinders.
18 liters petrol.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5573
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
I'm no expert, but I can't see drones being the primary weapon used in these attacks. The damage looks like it came from precision guided missiles, and if the photos are correctly reported, from a north or N/W direction. Clearly, the weapons used outsmarted any defensive weapons systems at the sites, and they would be close to state of the art for such a high profile target.

The damage pattern is what I would expect from cruise missiles.

Oil price trending up again, over 12% on the day
Cruise missiles are now decades old technology and developments in drone capability have now surpassed them in everything except warhead size. The drone operator sitting in an office on a different continent knows exactly where the drone is via GPS and can see his target clearly via the drones camera.
A refinery has flammable liquid in almost every foot of its maze of piping and tanks. All the drone has to do is break a pipe and light a match.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 507
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:
I'm no expert, but I can't see drones being the primary weapon used in these attacks. The damage looks like it came from precision guided missiles, and if the photos are correctly reported, from a north or N/W direction. Clearly, the weapons used outsmarted any defensive weapons systems at the sites, and they would be close to state of the art for such a high profile target.

The damage pattern is what I would expect from cruise missiles.

Oil price trending up again, over 12% on the day
Cruise missiles are now decades old technology and developments in drone capability have now surpassed them in everything except warhead size. The drone operator sitting in an office on a different continent knows exactly where the drone is via GPS and can see his target clearly via the drones camera.
A refinery has flammable liquid in almost every foot of its maze of piping and tanks. All the drone has to do is break a pipe and light a match.


Not near conspiratorial enough for our cousins across the ocean. Need some CIA involvement somehow, perhaps a communique between US and UK diplomats saying something about "Iranian oil" (that should be enough to build a decent conspiracy on), then you can drum up something more exciting then "gee the Kuwaitis aren't investigating claims of sightings and drones and whatnot for nuttin...but they lie!!" type stuff.

People who want a conspiracy will find one. Period, full stop. The real exercise is determining whether or not they have even a kernel of fact in their claims, or just (as Ruppert once did) manufacture it whole cloth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5630
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that is not what they did. At least 8 strikes where on large dome structures, and each one was at exactly the same distance and angle from the top centre of the domes. Human operators are just not that consistent, the targets were clearly pre-programmed and machine (gps) guided. The story is that the way they defeated the air defences is that the defences were looking south, and the attack came from the north.

To some extent the exact technology is a minor side issue. SA was completely blind sided and shown to be vulnerable to economic attack.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5573
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
But that is not what they did. At least 8 strikes where on large dome structures, and each one was at exactly the same distance and angle from the top centre of the domes. Human operators are just not that consistent, the targets were clearly pre-programmed and machine (gps) guided. The story is that the way they defeated the air defences is that the defences were looking south, and the attack came from the north.

To some extent the exact technology is a minor side issue. SA was completely blind sided and shown to be vulnerable to economic attack.
Still all within the capabilities of drone aircraft. Check out this drone and one of it's weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-12_Paveway_II
But not to worry by this evening it will be something Trump did to get re-elected at least in the eyes of MSNBC.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8343

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
To some extent the exact technology is a minor side issue. SA was completely blind sided and shown to be vulnerable to economic attack.

Of course this shouldn't come as a surprise. Almost everyone, almost always is highly vulnerable. 'Security' is largely a myth we chose to believe to help us sleep at night.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7572
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil prices have now returned to normal*

I suggest not becoming complacent however. I consider that further attacks are likely, as is a military response to the initial attacks.
Any sudden regime change in KSA might also have dramatic consequences.
Keep vehicle fuel tanks well filled, and keep a reserve if possible.
Remember that the law limits petrol storage to 30 liters, in most circumstances.

*Prices are still a little higher than just before the attacks, but are within the normal range of short term fluctuation.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 507
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it was a drone/cruise missile combo, originating from Iran.

No surprise there, or conspiracy needed on this one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7548
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
Looks like it was a drone/cruise missile combo, originating from Iran.

No surprise there, or conspiracy needed on this one.
Evidence? Links?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7572
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
Looks like it was a drone/cruise missile combo, originating from Iran.

No surprise there, or conspiracy needed on this one.


Certainly looks like it. The authorities in SA have exhibited the remains of the weapons used in the attack, and have stated that examination of these remains proves Iranian involvement.

Whilst I do not have the knowledge to pronounce on the origins of the wreckage, the fact that that the authorities have exhibited these and allowed the press to photograph them is IMHO, significant.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7548
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Certainly looks like it", does it?

So, we should all take the unsubstantiated word of the sworn enemies of Iran - the head chopping, woman hating, homosexual murdering, journalist butchering, genocidal Wahhabist nutters of Saudi Arabia - who also happen to be best buddies with the Yanks who also just happen to have been pushing for the destruction of Iran for decades ever since their man in Iran, the Sha, was deposed.

In your humble opinion?

Righto....

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 507
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
Looks like it was a drone/cruise missile combo, originating from Iran.

No surprise there, or conspiracy needed on this one.
Evidence? Links?


I recommend some googling around for the current list of existing evidence and the people it is coming from.

This isn't hard Little John, therefore it will be a bit difficult to assemble a conspiracy out of, but please don't let me stop you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> News All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 14 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group