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Russia Watch
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5967
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"part of Putin's Troll army" eh?

Laughing

Fuck me
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3727

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Clintons have a long track record. The CIA has a long track record. MI6 has a long track record. All of them have a history of despatching inconvenient people. Why is Putin 1) likely to be any worse, 2) likely to be much different from the others.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5967
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's just walk through events in UK over the last few months.

The World Cup has been a massive success for Russia as a nation and a footballing country, incredibly England have exceeded all expectations scrambling through to the Quarter finals also with a young organised battling team.

The reports in the press have reached a crescendo about the welcoming that the small number of English fans who made the journey despite the intense propaganda that even a few days ago the BBC pundits were speaking amicably about the real Russia.

The English fans in Russia were also becoming irrate that they had been told a pack of lies about Russia once they experienced the country in reality rather than through the mediated press.

The game against Colombia was played in an atmosphere like an "away" game as the massed ranked of fabulous Colombian fans roared on their team. This and the unexpected victory was noted back home and serious questions were starting tp arise as to "Why".

The next day when many more better informed English would have been on planes what happens ?

The Porton Down spooks have opened the bio shit pipe to the Salisbury area and two people are fighting for their lives again.
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 716

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
The Clintons have a long track record. The CIA has a long track record. MI6 has a long track record. All of them have a history of despatching inconvenient people. Why is Putin 1) likely to be any worse, 2) likely to be much different from the others.


Yes, and thanks to babchenko, we now know that the current news-givers can be easily 'fooled' (to put it kindly).
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 716

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Let's just walk through events in UK over the last few months.

The World Cup has been a massive success for Russia as a nation and a footballing country, incredibly England have exceeded all expectations scrambling through to the Quarter finals also with a young organised battling team.

The reports in the press have reached a crescendo about the welcoming that the small number of English fans who made the journey despite the intense propaganda that even a few days ago the BBC pundits were speaking amicably about the real Russia.

The English fans in Russia were also becoming irrate that they had been told a pack of lies about Russia once they experienced the country in reality rather than through the mediated press.

The game against Colombia was played in an atmosphere like an "away" game as the massed ranked of fabulous Colombian fans roared on their team. This and the unexpected victory was noted back home and serious questions were starting tp arise as to "Why".

The next day when many more better informed English would have been on planes what happens ?

The Porton Down spooks have opened the bio shit pipe to the Salisbury area and two people are fighting for their lives again.



The timing of this should surely trigger everybody's spider senses. Come on those who are firmly blaming putin. At least be skeptical about the official story.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6656
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My view, which I appreciate puts me in a minority, is that the initial poisoning was done by Russia, they had both the motive and the means and they do have "previous" for getting rid of people whom they dislike.
May not have been directly by a Russian government employee of course, but at their instigation.

The two recent cases I suspect to be an accident caused by the victims handling an article used in the original attack, or contaminated in that attack.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3727

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No! No! No! Just stop it Snail and LJ. You, you, you........you truth mongers. Tell lies like normal people.

Last edited by woodburner on Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5967
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"weapons of mass destruction", "the Afghan Taliban did the twin towers in" (despite the terrorists being Saudi to a man), "Assad gassed his own people", "Russia annexed Crimea" (despite 95% of the Crimean people voting by 87% to secede from Ukraine following a CIA orchestrated neo-fascist coup in Kiev)...

Yes... Yes... of course... buying into the latest bullshit from an utterly discredited political class is the "rational" thing to do isn't it...
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Mr. Fox



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 654
Location: In the Dark - looking for my socks

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was discussing the sentiments raised in this interesting - if somewhat 'sour grapes' - piece from the Indie (It doesn't matter what happens in the England World Cup match today because Putin has already won) with someone today, along the lines of how this latest Novichok crap is probably an attempt to counter all the football fans returning from Russia with stories of how great it is (well, the beers a quarter of the price for a start).

They replied that 'that's all well and good, but what about the draconian anti-gay laws that Putin has introduced that see gay people locked up in prison?'

This was from an educated, highly intelligent person with a generally cynical attitude toward our media and it's output.

The law to which they were referring was actually the prohibition on 'promoting homosexuality to minors', for which I understand, no one has ever been locked up (there have been a few fines issued of ~£70 iirc).

I pointed out that to find a comparable law (in both wording and intent) in the UK, we need only go back as far as 2003 and the 'clause 28' law. Moreover, there are apparently currently still 10 US states where laws prohibiting 'sodomy' are still on the statute - and that's before we look outside of the occident (India or Saudi Arabia for instance).

I'm not saying that any of this excuses regressive legislation, just that it needs to be viewed in perspective and shouldn't be used as an excuse to dismiss 50 - odd million Russians as some sort of uncivilised 'other'.

I'm not sure why, but it still manages to shock me how much of this hysterical propaganda about Russia manages to seep into people's belief systems without them noticing.

It's a tragedy that there is now no honest, unbiased and rational media outlet left. If your beliefs and opinions are based solely on what the remaining media shitweasles are feeding you, it's no surprise that those beliefs and opinions are going to be irrational, biased and - well - wrong.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5967
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1014995343115804674

Quote:
"....The Russian scientist who invented #Novichok says the #Skripal batch could not have lasted this long. Degrades fast he says. Ergo: #Russia RETURNED with more in the middle of the World Cup to “sow confusion” in Britain.

If you believe that you’re a f***ing idiot. That’s all...."
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 60
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, the general thrust of this thread is ' The British poisoned their own people to make Russia look bad'.

OK.Fine.

So by logical implication if England beat Sweden in an hour, three people will be poisoned by Porton down?

And if England beat Russia/Croatia in the semi finals four people will be poisoned to make Russia look bad.

What if England get to the final?
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Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
So, the general thrust of this thread is ' The British poisoned their own people to make Russia look bad'.


How do you get that? There are several possibilities. Of course the truth is that the US is almost certainly behind it, and the UK just follows along as usual, and blamed Russia. Just like with Brexit.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3727

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given one of the people, at least, is a heroin addict, it could be it was self administered, albeit accidentall, and convenient for the UK to latch onto to sow seeds of a Russian plot.
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Mr. Fox



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 654
Location: In the Dark - looking for my socks

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was chatting to one of my nephews earlier (Salisbury resident) who was wondering how to go about presenting his case for compensation as a 'victim of chemical weapons warfare' to the 'UN or someone', as he had to endure weeks of his walk to work taking about 3 minutes longer than usual.

He was joking, of course... he doesn't believe a word of it (but won't ever eat at Zizzi). Wink

Sometimes I quite like millennials. Cool
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4687
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
Of course the truth is that the US is almost certainly behind it, and the UK just follows along as usual, and blamed Russia. Just like with Brexit.

Home team bias of course but I fail to see a plausible motive for the US to do that at that time or place against those targets. The Liberals being out of power in the US dose not lead to every bad event in the world automatically becoming the USA's fault.
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