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FOE - Making the polluter pay for the transition to net zero

 
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1053
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: FOE - Making the polluter pay for the transition to net zero Reply with quote

Making the polluter pay for the transition to net zero:
https://policy.friendsoftheearth.uk/publications/making-polluter-pay-transition-net-zero

Interesting to see the estimated additional annual expenditure....
No1: Home insulation and low carbon heating @ £10 billion
No2: Cycle, walking and public transport @ £6 billion
No3: Subsidy for electric cars and vans @ £2 billion

Small fry, in the greater scheme of things....
HS2 currently estimated at £56 billion....
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d like to see a massive tax on palm oil too. Treat it like fossil fuel: tax it almost out of existence.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1053
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
I’d like to see a massive tax on palm oil too. Treat it like fossil fuel: tax it almost out of existence.


Palm Oil is a difficult one - what would we use instead ?
RSPO goes some way towards addressing the issue, but implementation is weak IMO...
It goes back to population again - people will always want cheap food, cosmetics etc. etc.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try to avoid it as much as possible - not having it doesn’t seem to do me any harm.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stopping the use of vegetable oils to make biodiesel to "green" fossil diesel would reduce the need to chop down tropical rain forest to grow palm oil.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14522
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another key avoidance strategy (far, far easier said than done) is refusing plastic whenever possible. 99% of plastic comes from fossil fuel - increasingly from fracked sources.

Way more difficult than avoiding palm oil!

You can make a start by seeking out shops that sell loose goods (fruit, veg., beans, grains, nuts etc); make sure you take your own bags, containers and clean re-used plastic bags.

We've been using the same washing-up bottle for a couple of decades and no usable bag is discarded; they're rinsed and re-used until they're unusable.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
I’d like to see a massive tax on palm oil too. Treat it like fossil fuel: tax it almost out of existence.


Palm Oil is a difficult one - what would we use instead ?
RSPO goes some way towards addressing the issue, but implementation is weak IMO...
It goes back to population again - people will always want cheap food, cosmetics etc. etc.


Ethical Consumer has a list of palm oil-free/RSPO suppliers, though I can tell it's not up-to-date and I would only go for the -free ones myself (I'm a compulsive label-checker). For instance, Naturli isn't mentioned.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice link, emordnilap...

Leads on to this link, but slight gripe with their List of 'Alternate Names for Palm Oil': https://orangutanfoundation.org.au/palm-oil/
In fact, it's mostly a list of chemicals that could use Palm Oil in their manufacture.
For example, Stearates could be made from Palm Oil, or they could be made from Tallow, but that then offends our Jewish/Muslim friends....

Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. Coconut, the second most efficient crop after palm, produces less than half as much oil per hectare. Soy oil, the second most produced oil after palm, is less than a tenth as efficient.

It still all comes back to population/consumption....
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
..........Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. ....


But also remember that converting tropical rain forest to palm oil plantation produces masses of CO2 to such an extent that the use of palm oil for fuel making is worse than using fossil fuel. If we banned the use of biodeisel and vegetable oil derived petrol we would go a long way towards removing the need for increasing vegetable oil production
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1053
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Mark wrote:
..........Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. ....


But also remember that converting tropical rain forest to palm oil plantation produces masses of CO2 to such an extent that the use of palm oil for fuel making is worse than using fossil fuel. If we banned the use of biodeisel and vegetable oil derived petrol we would go a long way towards removing the need for increasing vegetable oil production


I agree - don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting Palm Oil, or the use of it in Biofuels.
Don't have a problem with Used Cooking Oil (UCO) though....
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