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Gas or electric?
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
So where is all the gas going to come from? Not much left in the North Sea.


There is a little left, and a little more will probably be discovered, and hopefully a little can be imported, presuming BAU.
I can forsee gas increasing substantialy in price which will cause hardship to those who have become accustomed to burning large volumes of gas for space heating and water heating.
The much smaller amounts needed for cooking will be less of a concern, even at 10 times the present price, gas for cooking should be affordable with careful use.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
JohnB wrote:

But the best way to energy security is not to need it. Become a raw foodie!


Not sure I'm ready to go there yet! Smile


You don't have to 'go there' - experiment!. Lots of snacks can be raw so you might only have to use heat for one meal a day. Also, aim for a completely raw meal once a week, it's not difficult. But it is moreish...

Our stir-fries, which we have about once a week, are almost raw, so use little energy to 'cook'.

Also, if you get a woodburner for heating the house, get one with a hotplate for slow-cook stuff and pre-heating kettles.

In addition to the woodburner, we use propane, 34kg bottles. They last well over six months here, probably longer; we have a spare bottle so have perhaps a year of gas.

We have an on-going conflict over energy use, one I'm trying to resolve, given my avatar.
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clv101
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
The much smaller amounts needed for cooking will be less of a concern, even at 10 times the present price, gas for cooking should be affordable with careful use.


Indeed, I think people often forget just how little gas is used for cooking, compared to space and water heating.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank. The waste ferments and is naturally converted into gas and compost. In addition to producing energy, the project has resulted in better sanitary conditions in the home.

The poorest households, which had only one pig, built small units that could produce enough gas to provide lighting in the evening. Households with two or more pigs built larger units that could produce gas for cooking as well as for lighting.

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adam2
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank. The waste ferments and is naturally converted into gas and compost. In addition to producing energy, the project has resulted in better sanitary conditions in the home.

The poorest households, which had only one pig, built small units that could produce enough gas to provide lighting in the evening. Households with two or more pigs built larger units that could produce gas for cooking as well as for lighting.


Human waste alone wont produce enough gas for useful lighting, unless improbable amounts are available.
With animal waste as well then as above it is a bit more viable.
Relatively warm conditions are required for the fermentation and small scale plant is more applicable to the tropics than to UK conditions.
Large scale biogas plants work OK in the UK since the heat of fermentation suffices in a large system.
The gas produced is largely methane which does not produce a very good light when burnt unless an incandescent gas mantle is used.
This objection does not apply of course if the fuel is applied to cooking.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Human waste alone wont produce enough gas for useful lighting, unless improbable amounts are available.


The article (and indeed the focus of the digester project) is really about animal manure; humanure is just a bonus.

A digester for an entire district should do better, where of course everyone shits but not everyone wants to keep a pig.
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Human waste alone wont produce enough gas for useful lighting


Depends what you've been eating. Very Happy
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank.



Difficult if the households are in tower blocks.
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank.



Difficult if the households are in tower blocks.


People keep pigs in tower blocks?? Shocked
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featherstick



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the space in the kitchen you could set aside a deep drawer, or have one specifically built, for haybox cooking. We use a square laundry basket and a bean bag. When not in use, it serves as the TV stand in the living room. When I want to use it, I'll cook the stew/soup briefly, put the TV on the floor, put a couple of tea-towels over the lid of the pot and arrange the pot in the beanbag in the laundry basket. The polystyrene beads provide excellent insulation and the food will be well cooked and still pleasantly warm in a few hours. I've used ordinary pots and also used the pressure cooker, giving the food 5 minutes of high pressure before putting it into the haybox. It means we can come in from the forest or the allotment and sit down almost immediately to a warm meal that has only used 10 minutes' worth of gas to cook.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarrel wrote:
woodburner wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank.



Difficult if the households are in tower blocks.


People keep pigs in tower blocks?? Shocked


Did you ever watch The Commitments? Laughing

Or Into the West ?
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emordnilap



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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank.



Difficult if the households are in tower blocks.


Not impossible though. Of course, I realise vast swathes of people are lazy and/or stupid.
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Tarrel wrote:
woodburner wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Here's another idea.

Quote:
Each household involved in the project builds its own plant to channel waste from the domestic toilet and nearby shelters for animals, usually pigs, into a sealed tank.



Difficult if the households are in tower blocks.


People keep pigs in tower blocks?? Shocked


Did you ever watch The Commitments? Laughing

Or Into the West ?


Into The West looks fun. I'll settle down with a wee dram later this week and watch it. Smile
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emordnilap



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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarrel wrote:
Into The West looks fun. I'll settle down with a wee dram later this week and watch it. Smile


It is; a bit Celticmystic, a bit Oirish, a bit of the truth. But ignore all that and enjoy the scenery in a minor classic. Features the late-lamented David Kelly, RIP Crying or Very sad .
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emordnilap



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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet another idea. (Not that great in a block of flats, wb. Wink )
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