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The end of the free Internet - almost upon us
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woodpecker



Joined: 06 Jan 2009
Posts: 851
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1.

The agenda is the big business agenda. It is corporate lobbyists and corporate lawyers driving this one. I find them pretty scary people up close.

As far as the chilling effects are concerned, they don't care about that, and it's not their business to care about it. They just want their money. Ludwig, I really don't think you appreciate just how much money means to these people.

Do corporates also censor for other motives? Sure. Just look at Murdoch's approach to books on China when he wants to cosy up to the Chinese. But in this respect, Murdoch and anyone else like him does not have support from the law, in this country at least, and at the end of the day, Murdoch's censorship concerning books on China was also just about money. And you've got to be a bit of a twat to go to Harpercollins to publish a book on China.
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JavaScriptDonkey



Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 1683
Location: SE England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only suggested NK on the basis that they would be highly unlikely to conform to any edicts from the US.
On a practical note so long as their own citizens can't actually get on the Internet then simply hosting servers would have no impact on their (lack of) freedoms at all.

But only a moron would have thought I was seriously suggesting NK as a suitable host. Hell no it clearly needs to be a distributed database hiding in a Tor screened cloud. Rolling Eyes
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting report from RT with Hilary Clinton saying US was losing the media war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMoeDaLV2WA
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14291
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
biffvernon wrote:
I'm not entirely convinced that the world would be a worse place if there was no copyright. It's worth pondering what would happen to the amount and quality of art in the world.


I'm the same. Creative individuals should have relevant reward but beyond that?


...the real lesson from the SOPA debacle is that we need to develop alternatives to copyright to support creative work.
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Ludwig



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 3849
Location: Cambridgeshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodpecker wrote:
+1.

The agenda is the big business agenda. It is corporate lobbyists and corporate lawyers driving this one. I find them pretty scary people up close.

As far as the chilling effects are concerned, they don't care about that, and it's not their business to care about it. They just want their money. Ludwig, I really don't think you appreciate just how much money means to these people.

Do corporates also censor for other motives? Sure. Just look at Murdoch's approach to books on China when he wants to cosy up to the Chinese. But in this respect, Murdoch and anyone else like him does not have support from the law, in this country at least, and at the end of the day, Murdoch's censorship concerning books on China was also just about money. And you've got to be a bit of a twat to go to Harpercollins to publish a book on China.


My opinion, which few seem to share, is that all the big corporations, governments and military/security apparatuses (?) constitute one big network of vested interests. In the light of the Peak Oil crisis, this network can be viewed as essentially monolithic, and determined to retain its power after economic collapse.

I realise exactly how much money means to big business. It means power. Surely it's obvious that money in itself is not what people lust after: it is the status and power that money confers.

If, in the new world post-economic collapse, money in itself no longer means power, the people who currently have power are going to be looking for ways to retain their power across the transition.

The obvious way that power will be exercised in the coming years, given that the plebs can no longer be kept pliant by bread and circuses, is via control and oppression.

This is what SOPA is about: it is another step in the move towards a global police state. I'm sorry if this claim frightens people or makes them laugh, but sticking one's head in the sand won't stop it from happening.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go...

Contains some alternatives to Google'$ search engine.
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Ludwig



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Here we go...

Depressing, if predictable.

I always imagined that there would be a move to dictatorship to control the fallout from PO. But actually to see it happening is unnerving. And still more unnerving is that most people don't see it happening, or if they do, believe that it's happening for the best of reasons.

Quote:

Contains some alternatives to Google'$ search engine.


I wonder who finances them, though? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that implementing a search engine isn't something that can be done by a guy in a bedroom.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ludwig wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Here we go...

Contains some alternatives to Google'$ search engine.


I wonder who finances them, though? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that implementing a search engine isn't something that can be done by a guy in a bedroom.


True (although there are 200 search engines listed Shocked ). I know Scroogle is simply a secure way to use Google, really and often gets blocked as Google thinks it's a spambot.

To 'google' something is now accepted as a verb. To 'hoover' is too but, unlike google, people tend choose vacuum cleaners on several criteria, not just name.

So how to break that link is a goal - and who to use as an alternative. I don't know enough about search engines to answer - perhaps someone on here can recommend an open source alternative; all I know is the personal angle, the bigger the company, the less likely I am to give them money, which is why Scroogle beats Google for me at the moment.
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JavaScriptDonkey



Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 1683
Location: SE England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:

So how to break that link is a goal - and who to use as an alternative. I don't know enough about search engines to answer - perhaps someone on here can recommend an open source alternative; all I know is the personal angle, the bigger the company, the less likely I am to give them money, which is why Scroogle beats Google for me at the moment.


A open source alternative doesn't exist.

Google spend millions trawling through the www and copying the information back to their own servers. This stuff is archived for the best part of forever and regularly updated on their own servers.
When you search through Google you are actually searching Google's snap shot of the web as contained on their servers that instant. Google can only afford to do this because of the revenue generated by advertising.

I know an indecent amount about navigating in search spaces and it is a thorny problem to find a commercial answer to if you want quick responses.
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Ludwig



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:

I know an indecent amount about navigating in search spaces and it is a thorny problem to find a commercial answer to if you want quick responses.


That's what I thought. Writing the software's the "easy" bit. Paying for the hardware is something you need proper corporate funding for.
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JavaScriptDonkey



Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ludwig wrote:
JavaScriptDonkey wrote:

I know an indecent amount about navigating in search spaces and it is a thorny problem to find a commercial answer to if you want quick responses.


That's what I thought. Writing the software's the "easy" bit. Paying for the hardware is something you need proper corporate funding for.


Pretty much, yes.

The various distributed search solutions spread the search load across a network of machines that all contribute to the results. This leads to problems of resource usage for popular nodes along with network delays and a much greater risk of falsified results.
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the_lyniezian



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Posts: 1125
Location: South Bernicia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Here we go...

Contains some alternatives to Google'$ search engine.


Appears to link to a story about Google censoring blogs by country instead.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14291
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_lyniezian wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Here we go...

Contains some alternatives to Google'$ search engine.


Appears to link to a story about Google censoring blogs by country instead.


Hmmmm.

Try this then.

Or this? http://www.ihategoogle.org/
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2 As and a B



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 2592

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ludwig wrote:
I realise this story is a few weeks old, but it just came up on Russia Today news.

Russia Today link:

http://rt.com/news/internet-giants-slam-sopa-915/ - not quite as enlightening as the interview on the news programme with a young programmer.

Also:

http://promoteliberty.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/us-eyes-blackout-of-rogue-websites/
Quote:
If approved, SOPA will enable individuals or organizations claiming copyright to effectively block any website they suspect of infringing their rights. They would simply send complaints to advertisers, payment services, search engines and even internet service providers operating in the US, who would stop doing business with the site in question.

No court decision would be necessary, and third parties would be granted immunity from any reprisals resulting from their voluntary action against the alleged offenders. Not-for-profit websites would not be spared.


(My emphasis.)

So a person or a corporation can accuse any Web site of copyright infringement, without providing any supporting evidence, and - whoosh - away goes the site.

Call me paranoid, but I doubt that the main users of this law will be indignant music publishers.


UndercoverElephant wrote:
I still don't think so. I'd like to see them accuse this website of copyright infringement, given that almost the entire content is provided by the users.


Laughing That was funny!

Copyright is an intellectual property and property is what the law is all about protecting - protecting the propertied from the unpropertied, the powerful from those who would usurp their power. The internet has driven a coach and horses through copyright laws, which have been national by design of nation states. Interesting times.
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some bits of the Internet seem alive and well
http://cryptome.org/2012/01/wuterich/0087.htm
http://gizmodo.com/5882717/anonymous-may-have-completely-destroyed-military-law-firm
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