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HS2
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following the newly-commissioned +6,000 mile rail route to Madrid, from near-ish Shanghai, plus extremely ambitious talk of a new trans-Siberian route across the Bering strait to Alaska, is rail set for a long and secure future? Or do you see this as just more deliveries of Chinese crud?
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Tarrel



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Following the newly-commissioned +6,000 mile rail route to Madrid, from near-ish Shanghai, plus extremely ambitious talk of a new trans-Siberian route across the Bering strait to Alaska, is rail set for a long and secure future? Or do you see this as just more deliveries of Chinese crud?


Kind of reminds of the Donald Fagen song "International Geophysical Year" (ex Steely Dan).

Lyrics and performance here:

http://lyrics.wikia.com/Donald_Fagen:I.G.Y.

How dreams can be shattered, eh?
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The impasse suggests that HS2 chiefs may have to end the line at Old Oak Common,


So that's the first four miles that isn't going to be built. Why bother with Birmingham then, when one could save money by stopping at Solihull?
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osborne is asking the Chinese to bid for contracts for HS2 before decision to build is taken (anyway, it will never be built).
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power demand for HS2 revealed:

http://stophs2.org/news/15254-official-hs2-nuclear-reactor-power-it
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect that HS2 will eventually be built, but don't hold your breath!

I expect that some de-speccing and value engineering will be applied and that it wont be that much faster than existing routes, probably about 140 or 155 MPH.
A new line to the north is needed as much for increased capacity as for increased speed. The existing west coast route is full, and with a growing population, AND a growing proportion of that population choosing rail, more capacity is becoming urgent.
Rail freight is increasing and together with local passenger trains could make better use of the existing line once the faster and longer distance services move to HS2.

The electricity demand is certainly a cause for concern, but probably better than the extra FF burnt by cars and aircraft instead.
Electricity can be obtained from renewables and a fair proportion already is. Aircraft, and cars suitable for long journeys at motorway speeds are almost totally FF reliant.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue is a capacity issue. If you are going to increase capacity the lines might as well be straight. Straight railway lines are not necessarily much more expensive than curvy ones.
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boisdevie



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a capacity issue then why not keep the lines we have but have longer trains or double decker trains? Surely even adjusting bridges would be cheaper than a brand new line?
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boisdevie wrote:
Surely even adjusting bridges would be cheaper than a brand new line?

It would be nice if you could tell me where the adjustment knobs are. Then I could tell the government how they could twiddle a few knobs and save having to create new lines.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boisdevie wrote:
If it's a capacity issue then why not keep the lines we have but have longer trains or double decker trains? Surely even adjusting bridges would be cheaper than a brand new line?


Double decker trains would require the replacement of huge numbers of bridges, and most of the electrification structures, almost certainly more expensive than a new route.
The scale of engineering works required would also mean years of disruption.
Longer trains are a remote possibility, but would require a lot of land purchase and demolition.
Considering just Euston station, the platforms would need to be extended across not just the station forecourt, but also across the Euston road.
Similarly large scale alterations would be needed at other principle stations, with some* alterations at even small stations*

The present long distance trains on the west coast route are up to 11 coaches in length. Trains of twice that length would probably be full in a year or two, so for the long term we need to consider trains of up to 36 coaches, not actually impossible as many freight trains are that long. But think of the walk to the other end ! moving walkways needed at larger stations. The train length would be comparable to the distance between some stations on the underground.
(And I would expect a Pullman restaurant car EACH END of a train that long Very Happy )

*Smaller stations would not need platforms long enough for the entire length of the train, passengers would have to board and alight from the portion in the platform. However the whole length would have to fit between signals and junctions.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW we have had "sort of" double deck trains in the UK, and I am old enough to admit to having travelled on them !
IIRC, they ran on the main line just into the 1970s ! No restaurant though Sad
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Mark



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
Quote:
The impasse suggests that HS2 chiefs may have to end the line at Old Oak Common,


So that's the first four miles that isn't going to be built. Why bother with Birmingham then, when one could save money by stopping at Solihull?


Going back in history, Crewe was tiny and the railway only went there because the good folk of Nantwich didn't want it....
In 100 years or so, Solihull might be a Metropolis and Birmingham a backwater.... Smile
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The May and Tyler report is published today:
HS2 The case for review and alternative http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/hs2.html
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BritDownUnder



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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:

Longer trains are a remote possibility, but would require a lot of land purchase and demolition.
Considering just Euston station, the platforms would need to be extended across not just the station forecourt, but also across the Euston road.
Similarly large scale alterations would be needed at other principle stations, with some* alterations at even small stations*

The present long distance trains on the west coast route are up to 11 coaches in length. Trains of twice that length would probably be full in a year or two, so for the long term we need to consider trains of up to 36 coaches, not actually impossible as many freight trains are that long. But think of the walk to the other end ! moving walkways needed at larger stations. The train length would be comparable to the distance between some stations on the underground.
(And I would expect a Pullman restaurant car EACH END of a train that long Very Happy )

In the Australian news there was a passenger train of length more than a kilometre. Admittedly this is a tourist train but such things are possible. There are also double decker trains in Sydney.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/centralian-advocate/kilometreslong-iconic-train-the-ghan-pulls-into-alice-springs/news-story/e0b7a981729890a03ddfb95dd297968a

Quote:
The train comprised 44 carriages and two locomotives with six restaurants on board.

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clv101
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems we're cancelling planned rail electrification works:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40665659

Shame. These cost a tiny fraction of HS2... and in fact that unplanned bung to Northern Ireland would have gone a long way in paying for it.
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