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Is it me, or has PowerSwitch got a little bitchy recently?
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dudley



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fifthcolumn wrote:

To my mind, the guy is fighting a losing battle even though he's right. You can't argue with people who believe they're right regardless of the numbers.


The basic point of view of PS is that peak oil (and not the actual peak but the decline afterwards) is an important event having a big impact on society. This seems obvious to me and almost everyone who posts here. RGR denies this, having said that peak oil is an industry factoid and indicating that because the hasn't or wasn't predicted exactly and the world oil production curve does not follow some simple mathematical model that we should not worry about it. Ditto his argument that since there have been local peaks on the upslope we don't have to worry about the downslope. There can be many points of view from doomer to yours and Vortex's. You seem to identify with RGR but nobody calls you a troll or wingnut because you do not deny that peak oil is important.

I also find tiresome these characterizations of us as tree huggers or hippies. If there is some specific point you disagree with or think is extreme you should point it out at the time, not rail against tree huggers.
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SunnyJim



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2915

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be worse dudley. You could be called a banker, or an economist. Or an 'analyst'.

Not sure that hugging trees is a bad thing anyway. Kind of a compliment when you top to think about it.
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For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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dudley



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting film about tree huggers is Three Miles North of Molkom.
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mobbsey



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Banbury

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but there's also some very valid perspectives that can arise from such philosophically liberated people like this (courtesy of TOD):



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SunnyJim



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2915

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mobbsey wrote:
Yeah, but there's also some very valid perspectives that can arise from such philosophically liberated people like this


Brilliant!
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Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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SunnyJim



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2915

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dudley wrote:
An interesting film about tree huggers is Three Miles North of Molkom.


Ah, is that what is meant by 'tree hugger'? It's not a term applied to those that simply enjoy the natural world? So tree hugger really means 'Person with issues looking to anyone or anything mystical for some kind of salvation'?

I guess it means what you want it to mean man. I mean in as far as anything can be said to mean anything... you know what I mean...man. Wink
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Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12667
Location: York

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Treehugger is a Canuk news service about anything even vaguely Green: I used to read it every day when I was working. Highly recommended!
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dudley



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SunnyJim wrote:
dudley wrote:
An interesting film about tree huggers is Three Miles North of Molkom.


Ah, is that what is meant by 'tree hugger'? It's not a term applied to those that simply enjoy the natural world? So tree hugger really means 'Person with issues looking to anyone or anything mystical for some kind of salvation'?

I guess it means what you want it to mean man. I mean in as far as anything can be said to mean anything... you know what I mean...man. Wink


Well in this film they do a different spiritual thing every day and one day they each go out in the woods and find a tree that speaks to them specially and hug it. One of them says he chose his tree because it had a 'crotch'. I can't remember why the others chose their trees. They do lots of other stuff besides hug trees. Razz

Most of the trees in London are ornamental; I can see some outside my office. I could hug one of them but it would look odd. I saw a guy take a piss in one in public. To get spiritual with the trees I'd have to go to Epping Forest.
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dudley



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dudley wrote:
fifthcolumn wrote:

To my mind, the guy is fighting a losing battle even though he's right. You can't argue with people who believe they're right regardless of the numbers.


The basic point of view of PS is that peak oil (and not the actual peak but the decline afterwards) is an important event having a big impact on society. This seems obvious to me and almost everyone who posts here. RGR denies this, having said that peak oil is an industry factoid and indicating that because the peak hasn't or wasn't predicted exactly and the world oil production curve does not follow some simple mathematical model that we should not worry about it. Ditto his argument that since there have been local peaks on the upslope we don't have to worry about the downslope. There can be many points of view from doomer to yours and Vortex's. You seem to identify with RGR but nobody calls you a troll or wingnut because you do not deny that peak oil is important.

I also find tiresome these characterizations of us as tree huggers or hippies. If there is some specific point you disagree with or think is extreme you should point it out at the time, not rail against tree huggers.


I corrected a typo in the original post.

I sympathize with the tree huggers, but one thing in the Three Miles North of Molkom film is that in the end after all the spirituality etc. they all get in their cars that have been parked on the side of a nearby road and one of them flew there all the way from Hawaii. They are still part of the petroleum age. Sad

Actually I'm not even sure what spirituality means. I'm into empirical reality. According to this article

http://www.doublex.com/section/life/why-do-more-women-men-still-believe-god

Quote:
it's a guy thing to obsess about the empirical nature of the world.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14570
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BOT, this forum is a haven of politesse compared with, say, the comments sections of certain newspapers.

Besides that, I've always looked upon PS as being a useful source of practical knowledge, advice and references, which will always outweigh the tiresome necessity of wading through a little mud.
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Vortex



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 6096

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm ... the OP may be right ... there seem to be a bit more of grumpy abusive posts appearing at the moment.

When attacked I often try to stand my corner - at the risk of exacerbating the situation - but it would help if the original grumpy poster simply held fire before making abusive comments.
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2263
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a TreeHugger

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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 10470
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
BOT, this forum is a haven of politesse compared with, say, the comments sections of certain newspapers.

Besides that, I've always looked upon PS as being a useful source of practical knowledge, advice and references, which will always outweigh the tiresome necessity of wading through a little mud.


I see PS as that, but it's also more than that. This forum is a genuine community. There's not that many people who post here regularly - maybe fifty people and that's pushing it. On the whole, IMO, they are a first-class selection of people.
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Ludwig



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 3849
Location: Cambridgeshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
BOT, this forum is a haven of politesse compared with, say, the comments sections of certain newspapers.

Besides that, I've always looked upon PS as being a useful source of practical knowledge, advice and references, which will always outweigh the tiresome necessity of wading through a little mud.


I see PS as that, but it's also more than that. This forum is a genuine community. There's not that many people who post here regularly - maybe fifty people and that's pushing it. On the whole, IMO, they are a first-class selection of people.

I agree. I think that when I first joined I was perhaps a little too quick off the mark with sarcasm, because that's the norm elsewhere on the Web. It's easy to disregard the sensitivities of someone you've never met, don't expect to meet, and don't have a mental image of. However I have come to appreciate that PS is a friendly place and these days I try to disagree respectfully with people rather than get into a fight - although I still struggle to be polite with a small minority of posters, I admit Neutral
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