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Down to Earth by Bruno Latour
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 12262
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the figures that you could want Steve, are available for download from here. I've been looking for the CCC report which I saw in a lecture but I can't find the lecture or the report anywhere on either the UCL website and Youtube channels nor the CCC website.

When we have to feed ourselves it will be because there is significant disruption across the globe and there will be a lot of people redundant in the UK from former exporting industries and probably from the service industries and looking for jobs. It's unlikely to happen tomorrow but it will happen over a period of time. If we act to mitigate the problems occurring over the time the situation takes to get to no food imports being available we can feed ourselves at our current population.

The reduction in food imports will come from a reduction in world food production due to sea level rise and severe weather events and to ports being flooded by sea level rise and severe weather events. I'm just wondering whether the current crop of deep low pressure areas we are experiencing is just the start of our own hurricane season which could lead to damage to our own ports and flooding of low lying coastal areas.

One of the problems occurring could be another world wide pandemic which might even kill off a lot of people. Another situation could be a world war which might kill off a lot of people. Another possibility might be an influx of refugees and what we do about that will depend on whether we can feed everyone. Who knows? But it is all possible.

And yes, we need to start mitigation measures already as the NFU are predicting a 30 to 35% lowering in the tonnage of our grain crop this harvest due to inclement weather last autumn and this spring which could turn us into an importing nation instead of an exporter. The work needs to start now although we might not have any further problems for many years. On the other hand we could have the same or worse next year.
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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2548
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a slow movement in the right direction with the increasing popularity of veg patches in gardens, "Grow Your Own" magazine, supermarkets selling fruit trees and subtle media influence.

TPTB are slowly preparing the population.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 11118
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:
.....................(a) being massively overpopulated and so having to massively rely on imports for essentials like food and energy and (b) having a relatively disintegrated culture. ..........


With initial food rationing and a reordering of agriculture away from animal production, but not entirely away, we could feed ourselves a wholesome and adequate diet with our current population.

The CAT Zero Carbon Britain report says we can do 80% but with a significant amount of land given over to energy production and wildlife and a Climate Change Committee report says that we can do 100% without imports. This obviously means that tea, coffee and chocolate go out the window and sugar will have to be cut back but that won't affect a healthy diet too much.

That loss in itself might foment riots! Who knows?

Many more people will have to be employed on the land though and some "National Service" might have to be reinstated to get those jobs done. Maybe some people will find that working outdoors appeals to them and carry on in agricultural employment voluntarily afterwards.
Cite the scientific evidence - I mean the specific detailed evidence base - that this country can:

(a) feed itself, house itself and clothe itself given its current population levels without

(b) having to import significant quantities of other goods and

(c) still have enough labour time left over in the workforce to be able to engage in all of the other economic activities necessary to run a complex society of nigh on 70 million

Woolly, green, wish-fulfilling "mission statements" does not count, by the way. What are the specific numbers that back up that claim?


I don't believe these figures either. Remove London from the equation and maybe we could feed ourselves.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 11118
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catweazle wrote:
There is a slow movement in the right direction with the increasing popularity of veg patches in gardens, "Grow Your Own" magazine, supermarkets selling fruit trees and subtle media influence.

TPTB are slowly preparing the population.


Looks to me more like the population slowly preparing itself.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 12262
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the covid crisis has made many people think again about their lives: the number of people still working from home and the number of businesses talking about people not coming back to the office permanently is a measure of that. And the selling out of seeds in most shops is another measure. We will have to see how many are sold next year to see just how permanent the change is.

I have had a couple of letters published in the local paper about keeping a well stocked larder and have also been on the local Climate Action Network Facebook page on the same subject. There has been quite a positive reaction on the CAN page after a discussion about hoarding and food going off but only one reaction in the paper along the same lines. I have to get back to them to mention only buying when there is plenty in the shops and buying in small quantities and also stock rotation. Unfortunately many people can't work that out for themselves or, more likely, don't want to. The positive CAN reaction is from much younger people generally, thank goodness!
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