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Extinction Rebellion riders
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleming says it better than I did above:
Quote:
If an argument is a good one, dissonant deeds do nothing to contradict it. In fact, the hypocrite may have something to be said for him… There is no reason why he should not argue for standards better than he manages to achieve in his own life. Indeed, it would be worrying if his ideals were not better than the way he lives.

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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Fleming says it better than I did above:
Quote:
If an argument is a good one, dissonant deeds do nothing to contradict it. In fact, the hypocrite may have something to be said for him… There is no reason why he should not argue for standards better than he manages to achieve in his own life. Indeed, it would be worrying if his ideals were not better than the way he lives.

Exactly.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hypocrisy of some on these marches is not the trivial fact of their having to use carbon burning technologies like the rest of us. Defending that hypocrisy is defending an Aunt Sally.

Their fundamental hypocrisy is that many of them will be of the Caroline Lucas mould, where they simultaneously are highly likely to belong to the same cultural tribe that is happy to dance about Trafalgar square in blue face paint and yellow stars in support of an unreformable globalist neoliberal club that wishes to facilitate mass immigration of cheap labour in order to keep afloat an unsustainable model of perpetual economic growth.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5204
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
Well, to me the message is important .. the messenger is exactly that .. the person who supplies the message ... could be a courier, an email, whatever.

Books are like that : they fill you with excitement, enthusiasm etc .. but in most cases I have no idea about the author.

For example, I know more about the theory of evolution than I do about Darwin.

He could have been a pervert, a plagiarist, an alien .. and so what?

This I agree with. Even the worst of us are occasionally correct. Even an expert also needs to present evidence separate and apart from his feelings on the subject to prove his case and the best cases stand on that evidence not the personality of the messenger.
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RevdTess



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:

This I agree with. Even the worst of us are occasionally correct. Even an expert also needs to present evidence separate and apart from his feelings on the subject to prove his case and the best cases stand on that evidence not the personality of the messenger.


Indeed, Holy Communion is still holy even if the priest is a pervert or a heretic.

Nevertheless, some in the congregation will choose to go to a different church, or leave altogether.

Quote:
If an argument is a good one, dissonant deeds do nothing to contradict it.


In practice, this isn't true for a large number of people. You may say they're wrong, but when they have the same single vote as you, your correctness hardly matters. c.f Brexit...
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extinction rebellion plan to close Heathrow for a day, and then later for 10 days, unless HMG cancel the planned expansion of Heathrow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48470623

It remains to be seen if the planned drone flying will be effective.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48668001

Heathrow expansion plans published, staged extensions over several decades, including a third runway.
Massive building works including diverting a river and putting the M25 in a tunnel under the airport extension.
Nice to know that the plans include a low emissions zone for road vehicles, so no need to worry about the climate emergency.

Good timing as today was the planned disruption of Heathrow by Extinction Rebellion, this has now been postponed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48652840
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"a low emissions zone for road vehicles" - I wonder who thinks these ones up? We are well and truly fecked.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
"a low emissions zone for road vehicles" ...


Will that make any difference when you include the ultra high emissions from the aircraft? Using electric tugs for all aircraft on the ground at all times would make a bigger difference. And a catapult system to reduce engine power and fuel use on takeoff would make even more difference still.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
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Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Potemkin Villager wrote:
"a low emissions zone for road vehicles" ...


Will that make any difference when you include the ultra high emissions from the aircraft? Using electric tugs for all aircraft on the ground at all times would make a bigger difference. And a catapult system to reduce engine power and fuel use on takeoff would make even more difference still.


I would love to see 737's and other passenger aircraft shot off the ground with a aircraft carrier style catapult. That alone would make it worth flying commercial rather my usual habit of driving or riding a motorcycle.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no reason for an aircraft carrier style catapult as there is several thousand feet of runway at most airports. A much gentler acceleration would do, in fact the same as now, but the aircraft engines wouldn't have to supply quite so much thrust and polution for that acceleration.
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