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Brexit process
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 330
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snail wrote:
An aside and just for interest: I was sure may could modify the leave date without parliaments approval. I even read euwa 2018 act! She probably won't but can do this depending on legal interpretations i think if speed was of the essence.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9f0aa85a-4d4e-4113-a1a2-84fb042236a2



Just confirms that the power on extension lies with the EU



Snail wrote:

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/01/09/robert-craig-can-the-government-use-the-royal-prerogative-to-extend-article-50/?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C1200230912


Argues that an extension can be made in domestic law using the prerogative. However, the ultimate power to accept the domestic power lies with the EU!

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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5460
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am talking about real standard of living, health care, building standards, workers rights (especially women's) comprehensive education standards, etc.

Walking in a city street was a miserable experience of noise, smells and pollution in the 1970s. Traffic death rates were much higher. Communications and entertainment are literally out of this world compared to my childhood. (One B&W tv, 3 channels, 10 hours a day, no phone in the house until I was 14), house constantly cold.

Yes, inequality has risen steadily, and that counts for a lot, and loss of social mobility in spite of the loss of regional prejudice is a sad reality. My parents were poor working class but my dad got a scholarship to a good grammar school and WWII propelled him into a good scientific job which set him onto a steady career and comfortable retirement. We still felt class prejudice in the 1970s which made my parents stop me speaking in the local accent. Now grammar schools are seen as the preserve of the upper middle class.

The anger that is around has the same cause it always has, that of being dispossessed and ignored, but that is the result of the British class system, and not especially of the EU .
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
I am talking about real standard of living, health care, building standards, workers rights (especially women's) comprehensive education standards, etc.

Walking in a city street was a miserable experience of noise, smells and pollution in the 1970s. Traffic death rates were much higher. Communications and entertainment are literally out of this world compared to my childhood. (One B&W tv, 3 channels, 10 hours a day, no phone in the house until I was 14), house constantly cold.

Yes, inequality has risen steadily, and that counts for a lot, and loss of social mobility in spite of the loss of regional prejudice is a sad reality. My parents were poor working class but my dad got a scholarship to a good grammar school and WWII propelled him into a good scientific job which set him onto a steady career and comfortable retirement. We still felt class prejudice in the 1970s which made my parents stop me speaking in the local accent. Now grammar schools are seen as the preserve of the upper middle class.

The anger that is around has the same cause it always has, that of being dispossessed and ignored, but that is the result of the British class system, and not especially of the EU .
You understand precisely nothing and the reason for that is because you do not want to understand and the reason for that is because you perceive it not to be in your interests to do so.

Brexit is just one symptom of a worldwide phenomenon
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10996
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
....Opinion polls now show conclusively that the UK people have decided that Brexit is a bad idea after all and in a new referendum would vote to remain by a significantly larger margin than the first vote.


That is the way that the EU works, Ralph. They make people vote and vote until the EU gets the result that it wants. Meantime they arrange things so that the EU looks to be the best thing going. Once they get the "right result" they go back to "ever closer union" and all that that entails.

If we stay in there will be a European Army (perhaps even if we don't) paid for by central taxation and that central taxation will gradually spread to other things. Then there will be a treaty change in the near future which will say that every country in the EU must be in the Eurozone so if we do not join the Eurozone, like all the sheeple want at the moment, we will be out. you can guess which way that vote will go after all our current problems. We will then be in the Eurozone with all the problems and austerity which are afflicting Greece and Italy.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5460
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a second referendum is bad because the people have been misled by the EU and cowed into submission, but the original referendum is an inviolable voice of 'the British People" and must be implemented at all costs because that is Democracy ?

I still don't understand that logic
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, let's have another refendum and ignore the result of that as well? What was wrong with the second referendum, the one which we hope will get us out, apart from the fact that the government published an illegal leaflet and then swamped us with lies about how bad it would be if we even voted out? The government lied through its teeth in the first referendum as well, the one that got us in in the first place.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread confirms the damage that Brexit is doing.

Friends arguing, families split etc.

As I have already said, there will be tears before bedtime.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that Brexit is doing is showing who is who. That is to say, who has always been who but where that has been hitherto hidden by relative prosperity. But, now, the shit is hitting the fan, the masks are slipping and it's an ugly sight underneath.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:
This thread confirms the damage that Brexit is doing.

Friends arguing, families split etc.

As I have already said, there will be tears before bedtime.


I don't think it is Brexit which is doing it; that is only the catalyst. The basic point of difference is over the EU; whether or not it is a good or bad institution that we should be in.

From my point of view it is the font of all evil, obviously.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4542
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting updates on the Brexit saga...

1) Looks like the 2nd referendum option is de facto dead (NS)

Quote:
Most importantly of all, 334 MPs voted to reject a second referendum amendment laid down by TIG MP Sarah Wollaston, with 18 Labour MPs defying Jeremy Corbyn's instruction to abstain to vote down a second referendum. It highlights that even if Labour were to officially back a second vote in the House of Commons, there is no majority to be found for one in this parliament, not at the moment and very probably not ever.


2) May's deal may or may not be dead

Apparently the DUP donors are on strike and starving the party of funds. At this rate the DUP will go bust if they don't start supporting May's deal which has the support of Northern Irish business horrified by no-deal.

This explains why the DUP are now in serious talks with the Government on the scope of backing the deal as we speak.

As per eurointelligence...

https://www.eurointelligence.com/public.html

Quote:
There were more concrete signs that the DUP and some Brexiters are shifting their position. The purpose of MV3 is to maximise support on the Tory/DUP side. If that is not enough, and it probably won't, then there could be a cliff-edge MV4 in the last week of March, at which point some Labour MPs might support May. Her deal remains, in our view, the most likely exit route for the UK, followed by a compromise proposal along the lines of the single market. If there is one thing yesterday's amendment has told us, it is that there is no majority for a second referendum.


Tory MP's are starting to peel away within the ERG to May

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/15/irreconcilables-waverers-converts-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-lies/

Quote:
Brexiteer “convert” Martin Vickers, who switched to backing the deal last week, has crunched the numbers and calculates that “all but 15 of the hardcore” ERG members will end up voting for the Withdrawal Agreement.

The MP for Cleethorpes, whose biggest town Grimsby voted 71 per cent leave, said: “I always thought people like me would end up being backed into a corner of having decide between the deal or no Brexit and that’s what it has come to.

"No deal is no longer an option - the Government would implode. You push for your side up to a certain point and then you have to come to a conclusion.”


If it gets to 15 then sufficient Labour MP's would support May to get her deal through on the 3rd or 4th try.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3895

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a referendum which the government of the time said would allow voters to decide if we stay in te EU, or not. But in their arrogance they expected a result they did not get.

The vote was to leve the EU. Since then the pathetic attempts at pretending they were negotiating the terms of how the UK would leave the EU have shown the government to be totally untrustworthy. The apology for a prime minister has been spouting repeatedly that we would leave on the 29th of March 2019, only to magic a delay from nowhere.

The EU is run by the banksters aka the Illuminati who have been systematically reducing EU countries to poverty, and Merkel handed the EU on a plate with her disasterous immigration policy.

Another referendum will only confirm that governments have no interest in democracy, and it is something they will stamp out at every opportunity.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 330
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something to cheer us all up on this glorious Grand Slam day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRATq_a6Ok&list=RDRNtybd7kTqo&index=2&frags=pl%2Cwn
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anti-Brexit Tory MP Nick Boles has resigned from his local party due to local party pressure.

https://news.sky.com/story/pro-eu-mp-nick-boles-resigns-from-local-conservative-party-over-brexit-11667069

This has triggered me to attempt the same in my Mid Worcs constituency where our MP is anti-Brexit despite a pro-Brexit vote.

I have:
1. Written to the local party requesting details on how to initiate a deselection process.
2. Written to the Conservative Party to ask the same.
3. Written to Nick Boles' party to ask if they have any hints or tips.
4. Written to our local paper to see how much (if any) publicity they would give to any deselection efforts.

I will keep you advised.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4542
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6815891/PETER-OBORNE-enjoyed-rare-laugh-hunch-Theresa-winner.html

A pro-May columnist writes how May is near her target.

Quote:
Mrs May’s waiting game has outfoxed No Deal fanatics such as Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Vitally, their nutty idea that Britain could crash out of the EU on March 29 has been exploded.

This is a strategic triumph for No 10 of the first order.

The available options have been reduced to either a wait of at least a year before Britain leaves the EU or, alternatively, a short delay that gives time for Mrs May’s deal to finally be approved by MPs and then implemented.

This means that the members of the ERG face a stark choice. Either they sheepishly admit defeat and back Mrs May’s deal — or they carry on opposing her but risk their long-cherished Brexit never happening. By forcing those hardline Brexiteers on her backbenches into a box is evidence that Mrs May has followed a clever strategy.

Those who doubt me should consider the words of her closest adviser, Brexit negotiator Olly Robbins, which were overheard in a Brussels bar a month ago.

The mandarin predicted exactly the situation we are in today — that a ‘long’ extension was planned if MPs turned down the PM’s deal.

In other words, MPs would ultimately be faced with the choice between backing it or having to engage in what would most likely be yet more fruitless talks with Brussels.

We should give credit where credit is due. Mrs May’s feline statecraft has completely outmanoeuvred the hardline Brexiteers.

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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 867
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there's Tony Soros lurking in the shadows:

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2019/03/15/brussels-bombshell-no-extension-without-second-referendum-or-softer-brexit/
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