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Brexit process
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14459
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
“However, how can you take a man seriously when he says the same things as Jacob Rees Mogg?”


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6500
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are witnessing a coup against the people by the political class. There is nothing "confusing" about it.
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adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7012
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
It is written into UK law that we are leaving on March 29th. The only way that is stopped is by another primary act of parliament. The UK is not governed by motions, it is governed by laws.


Yes, but.
My natural cynicism, combined with my observations of the lengths to which "the establishment" will go to in order to avoid Brexit leads me to suspect that.

Any new primary legislation that is required to stop, delay, water down, or frustrate Brexit will be passed very quickly indeed, much quicker than normal parliamentary procedure would allow.
It will be found quick and simple.

By contrast, actually leaving the EU is said to be hugely complicated, with two years of negotiation having only produced various costly and complicated schemes for staying "partly in"
A lot more work, taking many years, will be needed to find a new scheme whereby we can remain subject to the EU and pay handsomely towards the costs thereof, but still call it Brexit. BRINO (Brexit In Name Only)
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
We are witnessing a coup against the people by the political class. There is nothing "confusing" about it.

Yes : A Very British Coup V2
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:
A question : why did some remainers including tories vote against the A50 extension?


Parliaments split 4 ways.


Further thought : maybe they were angling for the LONG delay that Theresa May threatened?
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5430
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am clearly missing out big time by not reading social media. I can find nothing in main stream media that in any way justifies any of the last dozen comments.

Opinion polls now show conclusively that the UK people have decided that Brexit is a bad idea after all and in a new referendum would vote to remain by a significantly larger margin than the first vote.
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Vortex2



Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
I am clearly missing out big time by not reading social media. I can find nothing in main stream media that in any way justifies any of the last dozen comments.

Opinion polls now show conclusively that the UK people have decided that Brexit is a bad idea after all and in a new referendum would vote to remain by a significantly larger margin than the first vote.

You think?

Sheesh around here in Brexit Central even quiet people are getting VERY angry about the behaviour of the MPs. Little sign of backsliding.

The Government has been so inept that they have screwed up this country bigtime.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 271
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vortex2 wrote:

Further thought : maybe they were angling for the LONG delay that Theresa May threatened?


Could be.

But 659 divided by 4, roughly 115 MP's per deeply held almost religious viewpoint.

It needs a 115 to leave their ideologies behind and take on another ideology that they fervently disagree with.

I won't hold my breath.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5430
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The government hasn't been inept - it hasn't existed. The Tories are split into tribes who openly sling insults at each other and ignore all whipping. Labour aren't much better. Normal parliamentary procedure has not applied for many months. The house of commons has been a circus . Around here in Euro Central we Brits walk very quietly and smile very sheepishly at out overseas colleagues who are beginning to vote with their feet.

Quote:
The Government has been so inept that they have screwed up this country bigtime.


Agree 100%

We are clearly living in different nations
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 271
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
beginning to vote with their feet.



There you go talking about Parliamentary procedure again Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6500
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW, This is the reality your ideological possession stops you from seeing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK0jeJ8wxg
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 271
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Blyth.

Just nails it.

I listen to his podcast every two weeks.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5430
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that a large lump of the British people - mostly those that don't vote - have been royally sat upon ever since the election of Thatcher - I have lived through all that. The FPTP system is very effective at keeping their views from being represented and so the media can safely ignore them.

I know that the EU is a far from ideal organisation but at the same time I have seen the standard of living in the UK for the majority - including the low paid employed- improve dramatically in the last 35 years. It is only in the last 2 Tory led parliaments since the 2008 crisis that the poor have seen significant reversals. They are paying for the corruption of the City of London through brutal and deliberately cruel austerity programmes.

However, in all other areas that matter - environment, science , the banks and financial institutions, workers rights, etc., etc., these people will be far worse off outside that EU than in it. A few very small minorities eg. UK fishermen, would be directly better off. Time after time the UK government has been quietly watering down EU proposals and legislation for private profit.

We are right to stay out of the Euro, and the EU financial policy is clearly run for the benefit of Germany.

The sub-national zeitgeist of seeing the EU as the major cause of UK's woes is black propaganda promoted heavily by the 0.1% who want to profit from the 1% who will be seriously put out by UK leaving. The bottom 30% are simply their means to an end.

Sorry about the waffle, I am trying to remain polite.
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 746

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An aside and just for interest: I was sure may could modify the leave date without parliaments approval. I even read euwa 2018 act! She probably won't but can do this depending on legal interpretations i think if speed was of the essence.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9f0aa85a-4d4e-4113-a1a2-84fb042236a2

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/01/09/robert-craig-can-the-government-use-the-royal-prerogative-to-extend-article-50/?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C1200230912
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6500
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
I know that a large lump of the British people - mostly those that don't vote - have been royally sat upon ever since the election of Thatcher - I have lived through all that. The FPTP system is very effective at keeping their views from being represented and so the media can safely ignore them.

I know that the EU is a far from ideal organisation but at the same time I have seen the standard of living in the UK for the majority - including the low paid employed- improve dramatically in the last 35 years. It is only in the last 2 Tory led parliaments since the 2008 crisis that the poor have seen significant reversals. They are paying for the corruption of the City of London through brutal and deliberately cruel austerity programmes.

However, in all other areas that matter - environment, science , the banks and financial institutions, workers rights, etc., etc., these people will be far worse off outside that EU than in it. A few very small minorities eg. UK fishermen, would be directly better off. Time after time the UK government has been quietly watering down EU proposals and legislation for private profit.

We are right to stay out of the Euro, and the EU financial policy is clearly run for the benefit of Germany.

The sub-national zeitgeist of seeing the EU as the major cause of UK's woes is black propaganda promoted heavily by the 0.1% who want to profit from the 1% who will be seriously put out by UK leaving. The bottom 30% are simply their means to an end.

Sorry about the waffle, I am trying to remain polite.
got any evidence of real terms wage growth amongst low earners form, say, 1980 to the present? Oh, and by the way, inflation adjustments should include rent/mortgages for it to have any meaning. A bit like how average wages should quote the mode instead of the mean to have any meaning.
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