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KSA Watch
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
History already has plenty to go on with respect to Western ruling classes - your own in particular - without the need for the terrible death of this one man.

The latest being the deathly silence over the butchery of Yemen with the supply of Yank (and British) arms.

I'm aware of the presidents but Trump is seldom bothered by presidents or the normal rules of conduct. That leaves all options open to him both good and bad.
I'm not very hopeful but won't cry foul until he chooses his path.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an aside, I will be flying out to a wedding tomorrow at first light so will have limited time and access to this forum over the weekend. Don't think I'm ignoring or agreeing with any posted positions before say Wednesday. Cool
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the Saudis thought that if the Russians can bump someone off in a public way to leave a message for their dissidents then they could do the same thing too. They might not have the military might that Russia possesses to get away with such things but they have the economic/oil based might to be above too much pressure.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another speculation.

However, I have given the specific reasons behind mine based on known facts. Wheres, yous is based on what, precisely?
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep! Pure speculation.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but do you have any kind of related facts by way of circumstantial evidence to allow you to logically make that speculation?
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raspberry-blower



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
QOUTE FROM LITTLE JOHN



Something very odd is going on with this incident with the Saudis. They are guilty of this kind of gruesome brutality on a daily basis and have been since forever. So, why are significant Western governments suddenly making a fuss? I think the answer is they would rather not be making a fuss. But, they now are forced to given it has been leaked by Turkey.

Something smells and it still leaves the secondary question of why Turkey leaked it?

Either it is elements in the Democrats who persuaded the Turks to leak it to make life difficult for Trump. Or, it was the Russians who got the Turks to leak it to make life difficult for America more generally since Turkey has now fairly comprehensively pivoted towards an alliance with Russia. And who can blame them given the West's hot and cold unreliable relationship with Turkey.

The Russian's themselves have plenty of motive to encourage Turkey to do something like this as part of pushing back America out of the Middle East - especially via the Yank proxy of Saudi Arabia through whom the Yanks usually funnel their financial and military aid to the head choppers in ISIS and their various affiliates as part of the ongoing Yank mission to topple Assad. Again, if true, the Russians could scarcely be blamed for such a tactic.

It hardly needs mentioning, this is all speculation.

quoted from a thread that I locked.
O/P WAS LITTLE JOHN.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-khashoggi-829291552


The question of why the Turks and Saudis are at loggerheads was recently discussed at Moon of Alabama. The crux of the matter is that this is a power struggle within the Islamic world. An Ottoman v Arab, Muslim Brotherhood v Wahabi conflict.
MoA: Cover-up Deal Will Blame Khashoggi Death on Botched Interogation

Quote:
The Turkish President Erdogan may agree to a 'political settlement' but the price the Saudis will have to pay for that will be very high. Erdogan again made clear that he aims at nothing less than neo-ottoman leadership in the Arab world:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Monday said that Turkey was the only country that could lead the Muslim world.
“Turkey, with its cultural wealth, accretion of history and geographical location, has hosted diverse faiths in peace for centuries, and is the only country that can lead the Muslim world,” he said in a meeting with religious officials.


Well we'll conveniently forget the Armenian genocide shall we, Erdogan? Evil or Very Mad

See also: MoA: Saudis stonewalling on Khashoggi

Quote:
A major Trump foreign policy is the new sanction regime against Iran. But without extra oil pumped by the Saudis the new sanctions on Iranian oil, which go into effect in early November, will increase oil prices and tank the U.S. economy.

It seems that MbS decided to sit out the storm over his murder of Khashoggi. He can pressure Trump by holding back oil exports. Trump would probably like to follow that strategy, if only to avoid any oil shortages. But the domestic and international pressure seems to become too big. As Erdogan continues the drip by drip release of sensational evidence and the Washington Post piles on, Trump will have to do something more than sending Pompeo for useless talks.

Stopping all U.S. support for the war on Yemen would be good start.

But it would not be enough. MbS needs to be removed.

The Trump administration has no ambassador in Saudi Arabia. The White House connection to the Saudi rulers ran solely through the Kushner-MbS phone-line. But that line is now useless. Trump will need to send someone who has good relations with the King himself. Only he can remove the clown prince. The King is 82 years old and not in good health. MbS might well be ruthless enough to suddenly let him die. Trump will have to act as soon as possible.

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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's rich! An American calling for regime change! Where has US led regime change anywhere in the world been a success in the last 50 years?
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BritDownUnder



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does appear that in recent years increasing numbers of countries appear to have psychopaths or lunatics in charge of them. I have only any experience of the business, and in particular, the resource world and not the political world but I find that the abundance at high levels of 'nutters', for want of a better word, is high in business and appears to be on the increase in the political world as well.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's the increasing pollution that is resulting in us producing more and more psychopaths worldwide. And if the human race produces more of them then more of them will rise to positions or power because that is what they tend to do with their inherent lack of scruples.

I haven't worked out what you do with all these third world nutters who cause the instability that produces mass migration. As we have seen in the past if "a policeman" removes a nutter from the throne in a country that country tends to descend into anarchy and the "policeman" gets the blame.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The recent mass migrations out of the middle East have been largely on the back of two things;

1) Western military adventures in the middle east leading to several failed states

2) climate change, largely brought about as a consequence an industrial revolution leading to an industrial age, started by the West.

I am not saying this in order to aportion "blame". These are just the facts. And, of course, tribalist cultures in those parts of the world have not helped. But, they are secondary factors.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
The recent mass migrations out of the middle East have been largely on the back of two things;

1) Western military adventures in the middle east leading to several failed states

2) climate change, largely brought about as a consequence an industrial revolution leading to an industrial age, started by the West.

I am not saying this in order to aportion "blame". These are just the facts. And, of course, tribalist cultures in those parts of the world have not helped. But, they are secondary factors.


Yes the above.

No. 2 - http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26977
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KSA now stating that the missing journalist "died after a fight" at the consulate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45923217

This post accurately repeated news reports WHEN I MADE IT, but has now been overtaken by events.
See following post.
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Last edited by adam2 on Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KSA now admit that the journalist "was murdered" in their consulate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45935823
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raspberry-blower



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on the Khashoggi case:

Moon of Alabama: Khashoggi drama: a deal has been made but will it hold?

Quote:
Today the Khashoggi issue moved from the frontpages of U.S. media. The amateurish bombs sent to several Democrat politicians yesterday have turned the news cycle towards a new issue. Is this just by chance?

Erdogan still would like Mohammad bin Salman to be kicked away from the throne. U.S. pressure may have prevented that for now, but MbS has been cut to size. Congress will request a briefing by Haspel and the cintents of the audio may leak. It will continue to press the issue and, hopefully, end U.S. support for the horrible war on Yemen the Saudis and the UAE are waging with extensive British and U.S. help.

Turkey will also have made demands towards the United States. Erdogan wants the U.S. to end the protection of Kurdish forces in Syria. Rebels supported by Turkey recently attacked a U.S. outpost in Manbij. The clash was soon over with no casualties but it demonstrates that the conflict is still simmering. What carrots did the White House offer him?

It is likely that there is a deal and it may even hold. We will have to wait for more leaks to learn more of its details.

But the strategic issues that were brought to light over the Khashoggi case have not vanished. MbS is unreliable and a danger for U.S. interest. He will want some revenge for the damage Erdogan caused to him. He will wait for a chance to hit back


Consortium News: The Khashoggi affair and the future of Saudi Arabia

Meanwhile the genocidal war in Yemen continues...
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