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EV charge points to be required in new build homes ?
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: EV charge points to be required in new build homes ? Reply with quote

According to news reports, HMG are considering requiring that all new homes must be equipped with a charge point for an electric car.

No technical detail is given as this is a political announcement devoid of any technical or engineering data.

It seems however a reasonable assumption that a single phase 32 amp charger circuit is likely.

If this is the case, I wonder if we will see any requirement as to the minimum electrical service capacity for new homes.
I doubt that a 32 amp charger is viable on a 60 amp service, and it might be marginal on 80 amps.

Perhaps we are moving towards 100 amps as a minimum for new builds ?

Or even three phase to become the norm ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44759150
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BritDownUnder



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: EV charge points to be required in new build homes ? Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
According to news reports, HMG are considering requiring that all new homes must be equipped with a charge point for an electric car.

No technical detail is given as this is a political announcement devoid of any technical or engineering data.

It seems however a reasonable assumption that a single phase 32 amp charger circuit is likely.

If this is the case, I wonder if we will see any requirement as to the minimum electrical service capacity for new homes.
I doubt that a 32 amp charger is viable on a 60 amp service, and it might be marginal on 80 amps.

Perhaps we are moving towards 100 amps as a minimum for new builds ?

Or even three phase to become the norm ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44759150


To me three phase should be the new norm or maybe even a dedicated 300VDC supply network to homes requiring vehicle charging. I can see power distribution companies (these are separate companies in Australia and NZ to the generators and transmission company though rapidly being gobbled up by Chinese companies) getting very nervous about the bigger transformers and wires needing to be installed.

However householders could be encouraged to get solar installed along with power hungry chargers to alleviate the situation.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One has to wonder what percentage of new homes would have a charge station installed if their was no regulation requiring it.?
I would think it would be near 100 percent on high end homes and drop off towards the cheaper end where the owners might not have a car to begin with. But of couse a government program will better serve us all!!
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without any regulation requiring that new homes be equipped for EV charging, I suspect that very few homes would be so equipped.
That is why such a regulation is being proposed.

EVs are the future, not for everyone nor under all conditions, but should within reason be encouraged for reasons of energy security and reducing local air pollution.

Requiring that most new homes be equipped with a charging outlet is a step forward.

And yes I suspect that 3 phase may become the norm for new builds, it would also be preferable for large heat pumps.

In the near term, I suspect that a single phase 32 amp charging circuit and a 100 amp single phase service will become the norm.
For larger homes with more than 4 bedrooms, a minimum of two charging points should in my view be required, which would in effect require a 3 phase service.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the speculative house building model in the UK is that no builder will build more than is absolutely necessary because it comes directly off their bottom line, their profit. So you have the strange situation where the Building Regulations are both the minimum standard that speculators can built to and the maximum that they will build to.

The only exceptions to this rule are self build, where people are building their own dream home, and a very few niche market builders who know that they can sell an up spec eco house to the small market that appreciates the difference at the moment.

EV charging points and the additional power supply for them fall into this eco upgrade niche market at the moment.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully the proposed requirements for most new build homes will not mandate any particular type of actual battery charger, that will probably be obsolete by the time the rules are finalised.

To require the provision of a single phase 32 amp socket outlet would seem reasonable, as would a requirement that the remainder of the installation be able to handle a long hour full 32 amp loading of this socket, plus normal use of other circuits and appliances in the home.

The customer can then plug into the socket whatever they want, subject to the loading not exceeding 32 amps.

A 32 amp socket would also be useful for occasional use of other appliances such as carpet cleaning machines, arc welders, and electric barbecues, all of which are marginal on 13 amp sockets.

Or of course 3 phase, pretty much all the arguments against domestic 3 phase are now irrelevant.
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Mark



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
So you have the strange situation where the Building Regulations are both the minimum standard that speculators can built to and the maximum that they will build to.


This effect occurs in many areas of Regulation.
For example, most business leaders were scared stiff when the Minimum Wage was proposed and fought bitterly to oppose it.
Once introduced, it raised the wage for those at the very bottom, but over time, it has now become the defacto Living Wage for a whole band of people/jobs..., depressing wages for many, not increasing them....

As they say, the devil is always in the detail....
Hopefully the Building Regs will be sensibly amended to cover EV Charging Points......, however, can't see much room for legislation on anything other than Brexit for a long time to come...
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Mark



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

National Grid lowers estimation of EVs’ impact on electricity demand:
https://www.endsreport.com/article/60238/national-grid-lowers-estimation-of-evs-impact-on-electricity-demand

Electric vehicles (EVs) will play a major role in supporting the low carbon transition by storing excess generation and releasing it back onto the network when needed, National Grid said today. The grid operator’s annual report into how the UK could use energy in the future, and where it could come from, includes the possibilities of vehicle to grid (V2G) charging for the first time. There have been commercial developments in the technology in the past year, and projects to test the concept are underway, it says.

V2G has minimal impact on annual electricity demand but can play a significant role in terms of day demand in helping to manage times when the network experiences excess generation or demand, according to National Grid. Non-commercial cars are not being driven 96% of the time, it points out. During some of this time, an EV could be connected to the electricity network and instructed by an aggregator to either draw from, or supply to, the system. Aggregators would then sell the combined capabilities of the connected batteries to network operators in order to help balance the electricity system.

If V2G was used effectively, along with smart charging, National Grid estimates that EVs would put less pressure on the grid than previously thought, boosting peak electricity demand by 3-8GW in 2030 and 3-13GW in 2050. This is more optimistic than its analysis last year, which estimated that EVs would boosted peak demand by 6-30GW by 2050. The prediction that EVs will have a lower impact on the grid comes despite the fact that there will be even more EVs on the road than National Grid previously predicted. It believes there will be 36 million by 2040, double the number it predicted last year. This year’s analysis also predicts that gas will continue to provide more energy than electricity by 2050 and remain the dominant form of heating well into the 2030s. However, it will provide flexibility for both heat and electricity generation, complementing renewables, National Grid said.

Fintan Slye, director of UK System Operator at National Grid, said: “The scenarios are not predictions, but they aim to be a catalyst for debate, decision making and change, and provide transparency to the wider industry. We are already operating in an exciting period of change – a trend which is set to continue, certainly up to 2050 and beyond.” Earlier this week, the government published its Road to Zero strategy, setting out measures to boost the take-up of EVs. Yesterday, however, the Committee on Climate Change warned that this fell short on several levels.
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Mr. Fox



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This proposal has the potential to get quite, erm... 'interesting'.

As Adam rightly points out, we can't just add 30 - 50% in demand to most existing installations... that would not/be unlikely to conform to regs (BS7671) with regards to maximum demand calculations - I mean you'd have to assume 100% of the charger max load when calculating diversity.

Under the 'Electricity Supply Regulations (1988)', which governs the distributors supply to a building, reg 25 simply states that the supplies must 'suitable for their respective purposes'... then reg 27 states that they don't have to supply jack if the installation (your bit) doesn't conform to BS7671 - which, of course, it won't if their supply is inadequate.

Of course, you'll have to pay the distributor £££ to upgrade (probably bring in extra phases), then spend more £££ to upgrade your installation to accommodate this.

As for adding these sorts of load to street lighting infrastructure (as the BBC article in the OP suggests)... well, I hope y'all like roadworks.

And that's all just at the point of use - further upstream in the generation and distribution system is where the fun really starts, as the article Mark posted above suggests (cheers, btw).

Even with V2G considered, it's worth glancing at the latest UK Energy Flow Chart (pdf) and wondering how much of the ~56 MTOE of transport consumption can be squeezed on to a distribution system currently providing a ~26 MTOE electricity supply without some serious money being spent there.

For good (non-politicised) info on this stuff, I usually turn to this guy - I've not kept up with his publications lately, but if I find anything relevant and accessible I'll post it up.

(On the bright side - we do appear to be settled(ish) on a standard for the connectors: IEC 62196).
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding a single phase 32 amp EV chargpoint to new homes should not be that expensive.
For the average size home it simply means specifying a 100 amp single phase service instead of 60 amps or 80 amps.
For the larger or all electric home it means 3 phase. Neither is expensive if done as part of the design and build and build process, rather than being an afterthought.
3 phase service is available ALMOST everywhere, there are still a handful of legacy systems that go back to DC days, and therefore cant supply 3 phase. Even those systems can supply so called 2 phase, which is more properly called single phase 3 wire.
It would in effect mean the end of 60 amp services for new builds.

The distribution network would have to be of larger capacity, but again this is not that expensive if done as part of building a new housing estate.
The cost should be repaid by the greater sales of electricity.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people are going to be disappointed with these electric cars, so will suppliers who thing V2G will work. There will be a lot of charging cycles on the batteries, and this will result in increased failures. There are a lot of cells in the batteries, so increasing likely failures. 150kW fast charging can b done once a day, so after 100 miles it will b a looooong time to charge for the next 100 miles.
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Mark



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The implications of proposed electric vehicle requirements for new homes:
https://www.endsreport.com/article/60249/the-implications-of-proposed-electric-vehicle-requirements-for-new-homes

New homes need to be ready for the arrival of electric vehicles, the government has said. Its Road to Zero transport strategy, published earlier this week, says that it is the government’s intention that all new homes, “where appropriate”, should have a chargepoint available. The government will consult “as soon as possible” on introducing a requirement for chargepoint infrastructure for new dwellings in England, “and will look at how to achieve this in the most cost effective way, mindful of the government’s housing supply objectives”, according to the document.

David Weatherall, head of policy at the Energy Saving Trust, told ENDS the strategy’s stipulation that chargepoints should be made available “where appropriate” suggests that the government could be considering restrictions in areas where the grid is heavily constrained, or where the benefits of good public transport outweigh the need to fit electric vehicle charging infrastructure. The planning system and building regulations are likely to play a key role delivering the strategy’s pledge, according to Weatherall. He says that, in order to ensure chargepoint infrastructure for new dwellings in England is implemented effectively, building regulations could be used to “promote an integrated approach to minimising carbon emissions in the home, taking into account electricity demand for EV charging alongside the other areas of energy demand in the home which are already considered in the regulations”.

Meanwhile, conditions attached to planning permissions, local development orders, permitted development rights and developer contributions are among the planning tools that could be considered to facilitate the roll-out of chargepoints in residential developments, he added. Weatherall said that the London Plan, the capital’s key strategic planning blueprint, is currently the most advanced local planning policy for electric vehicles. Proposals in the draft new London Plan would require one in five car spaces in all residential developments across the capital to be able to provide electric vehicle charging points. In its first full assessment of the UK’s infrastructure needs, also published this week, government adviser the National Infrastructure Commission, called for local authorities to free up 5% of their parking spaces for electric vehicle charge points by 2020, and 25% by 2025.

For Adam Selvey, director of building services at environmental consultancy Ramboll, it is crucial that housebuilders get design right. “If you don’t design buildings properly, you’ll end up oversizing infrastructure and oversizing grid capacity over the longer-term,” Selvey told ENDS. Selvey said that it is imperative all parties understand the behavioural concepts of rest, work and play, meaning where, when and for how long EV users will power there electric vehicles based on their needs but also tariffs available to them.

The National Grid believes there could be up to 25m electric vehicles on Great Britain’s roads by 2035, rising to 36m by 2040 – the official cut off date for the sale of conventional combustion engines – according to its latest forecasts. The National Grid has estimated that during peak demand in the early evening, demand could be as much as 8 gigawatts higher in 2030 as a result of electric vehicles flooding the network. In its latest winter outlook for 2017/2018, maximum demand for electricity peaked at 50.7GW on the grid. But even during winter months, demand stays stable from midnight to 7am, at around 35GW, according to Selvey, meaning this existing slot of supply could power a large proportion of electric vehicle demand.

As noted by Matt Finch, business and economics analyst for the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit, the Road to Zero strategy wants to see all government supported chargepoint installations have “smart functionality” by 2019, killing the “dumb charger market” - referring to chargers without smart meter functionality - and really opening up electric vehicles to the power market, he believes. Indeed, smart controls can be fitted to a bank of “dumb” chargepoints at a regional scale, Weatherall said, allowing behavioural factors like demand side response to affect and change the market. Finch described the strategy as a “good first step”. It was “good to see the government explicitly recognise the need to future proof homes,” although major uncertainty hangs over how the current housing stock could be retrofitted, he said.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This news report suggests that some form of smart charging is to be encouraged.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44923014

Rather short on detail but sounds like something a bit more sophisticated than the simple fixed hours offered by existing off peak tariffs.
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cubes



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of interesting, having never seen a home charging point, are they secure from someone else charging their car up while you're at work? If not it'll become a problem once electric cars get more popular.
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My charge point is left open to use on my drive whilst I am not there. As it was subsidised by a government grant, it is even visible on open web maps of charging points. I can isolate it at the consumer unit. and it has a locked cover which probably has a switch under it, I haven't checked.

At present it would be a brazen thief who would park in my drive for 4 hours in front of the neighbours and risking me coming home. If another EV driver got caught out on range I wouldn't mind them topping up at my point, I would expect them to drop a donation through the letter box.
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