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Assange Watch
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4644
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Which can be reversed by a later president or the supreme court, or Congress with a big enough majority.

Has a presidential pardon ever been reversed?
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it can. In theory a new law could be passed, it may even require a constitutional change. In essence a pardon is it.

He should have left the embassy before Trump came to power.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8714
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should certainly leave the embassy before Trump leaves power.

If he were to walk out of that embassy now, and end up in US custody being charged for some offence which the US has no right to charge him for, he would rapidly become a focus for global condemnation of the United States and put Trump in a near-impossible position.

All he has done is publish documents leaked by somebody else. He's not a US citizen, his actions did not take place in US territory, and it is not even clear that he would have committed a crime even if he was a US citizen and working within the US.

The idea that the US could just lock him up and treat him like Bradley Manning is bordering on unthinkable now. Maybe a few years ago, but if the US did that now then the political consequences would be enormous - far too enormous for somebody of Trump's limited abilities to cope with.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chelsea Manning - who had a sentence reduced by Obama.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8714
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flurry of Assange stories in the last 24 hours. Ecuador has had enough, it seems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-42629761

Quote:

Julian Assange: Ecuador seeks mediator in 'unsustainable' standoff
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assange granted Ecuadorian citizenship, Ecuador asks for him to be recognised as having diplomatic status, UK refuses:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/11/julian-assange-is-made-ecuadorian-citizen-in-effort-to-resolve-impasse
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1584

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonathan Cook: The UK's hidden role in Assange's detention

Jonathan Cook wrote:
One has to wonder at what point will most people realise that this is – and always was – political persecution masquerading as law enforcement.

_________________
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not a question of people being stupid. Some people (such as myself) see this as him making the wrong decisions.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5891
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, what "wrong" decisions would they be?

You are a liar John Hemming. You are trying to remodel your position. You have stated, persistently, throughout this thread, that he was merely wanted for questioning in Sweden and that he was hiding from Swedish justice in the Ecuadorian embassy for no good reason.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was less at risk under Obama than under Trump and he would be more protected against the US in Sweden than in the UK.

Being abusive does not strengthen your arguments.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And deliberately, pathetically attempting to evade the point put to you does not strengthen yours.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure I have said before that he should have gone to Sweden. His problem now is that he will be prosecuted for evading arrest in England and probably jailed for that. On the other hand he will probably be released at some stage and that is a way out of the embassy stalemate.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8714
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
His problem now is that he will be prosecuted for evading arrest in England and probably jailed for that


You cannot possibly believe what you are writing. Nobody with an IQ above 70 could believe what you are writing. The maximum penalty for skipping bail in the UK is 12 months. He's been incarcerated in that embassy for 5 years. You cannot possibly believe he'd stay there, with no prospect of getting out, denied daylight and basic medical treatment, if his "problem" (i.e. what he is hiding from) is 12 months in an English prison, with access to daylight, and medical care, followed by a release and freedom to travel to Ecuador. He'd bite your arm off if you offered him that.

Stop insulting our intelligence and making yourself look like an idiot. Seriously. You cannot believe what you are writing, and you do not. You know perfectly well, and always have done, that he is hiding from a secret grand jury that wants him extradited to the US and prosecuted for publishing leaked evidence of US war crimes.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
You know perfectly well, and always have done, that he is hiding from a secret grand jury that wants him extradited to the US and prosecuted for publishing leaked evidence of US war crimes.

I accept that there may be an issue under Trump. However, he spent a lot of time wandering around the UK before going into the Embassy. He could have spent that time going to Sweden and dealing with the allegations against him.

Sweden has more protections against extradition to the USA than the UK.

I think he may have believed that public pressure might cause him to be able to get out of the embassy without arrest. However, that is clearly not the case.

If he had been concerned primarily about extradition to the USA then he would not have waited until the end of the UK proceedings about the EAW before going into the embassy.

That is a clear fact of timing which makes it clear that he was originally not concerned about extradition from the UK. It may not fit with your world view, but I am concerned myself to know the truth. Hence if the truth does not fit my model of reality I change the model of reality.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody believe you, John. Not even you.
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