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Ship exhaust and Climate Change

 
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Ship exhaust and Climate Change Reply with quote

Not entirely sure which category to post this in as it is equally relevant to the Climate Change thread.

Phys org: Ship Exhaust makes Oceanic Thunderstorms more intense

Quote:
The new study is the first to show ship exhaust can alter thunderstorm intensity. The researchers conclude that particles from ship exhaust make cloud droplets smaller, lifting them higher in the atmosphere. This creates more ice particles and leads to more lightning.

The results provide some of the first evidence that humans are changing cloud formation on a nearly continual basis, rather than after a specific incident like a wildfire, according to the authors. Cloud formation can affect rainfall patterns and alter climate by changing how much sunlight clouds reflect to space.


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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Ship exhaust and Climate Change Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
Not entirely sure which category to post this in as it is equally relevant to the Climate Change thread.

Phys org: Ship Exhaust makes Oceanic Thunderstorms more intense

Quote:
The new study is the first to show ship exhaust can alter thunderstorm intensity. The researchers conclude that particles from ship exhaust make cloud droplets smaller, lifting them higher in the atmosphere. This creates more ice particles and leads to more lightning.

The results provide some of the first evidence that humans are changing cloud formation on a nearly continual basis, rather than after a specific incident like a wildfire, according to the authors. Cloud formation can affect rainfall patterns and alter climate by changing how much sunlight clouds reflect to space.

I can't give that much credit when considering the volume of the earth's atmosphere compared to the relatively tiny volume of the worlds fleet ship exhaust.
Now ninety million barrels of oil a day consumed and for the most part burned with exhaust gasses vented to the atmosphere is probably a problem with all the cars, planes,and house furnaces belching out their waste contributing to the problem but ocean going ships are most probably the least guilty of any negative effects.
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ocean going ships use the most polluting oil product of all - bunker oil, is high carbon, high sulphur, high in particulates. It is a small (? less than 10% ) fraction of total production but ships concentrate in narrow shipping lanes, and will certainly have localised effects. At least, unlike aircraft, the particulates are not directly delivered to the high atmosphere.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The constant stream of ships up and down the West African coast is delivering the pollution that Ralph mentioned right into the breeding ground for Atlantic hurricanes.

The problem with aircraft emissions is the chemicals involved - NOX. These react with ozone among other things to cause problems.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
The constant stream of ships up and down the West African coast is delivering the pollution that Ralph mentioned right into the breeding ground for Atlantic hurricanes.

The problem with aircraft emissions is the chemicals involved - NOX. These react with ozone among other things to cause problems.
Would you compare that to the fuel burned over the length of I-95 in the USA from Florida to Maine?
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ship exhaust is tiny when compared to other fossil fuel burning, or much other burning or a small volcano.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
The constant stream of ships up and down the West African coast is delivering the pollution that Ralph mentioned right into the breeding ground for Atlantic hurricanes.

The problem with aircraft emissions is the chemicals involved - NOX. These react with ozone among other things to cause problems.
Would you compare that to the fuel burned over the length of I-95 in the USA from Florida to Maine?


The west coast of Africa is where the hurricane forms. How it is formed has a greater effect on its power in the western Atlantic/Caribbean than how it dies over continental USA. Once it gets to I-95 it is on its way out as it has lost the hot waters which give rise to its power.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:


The west coast of Africa is where the hurricane forms. How it is formed has a greater effect on its power in the western Atlantic/Caribbean than how it dies over continental USA. Once it gets to I-95 it is on its way out as it has lost the hot waters which give rise to its power.

Dose the air pollution from the USA not get up to the upper atmosphere and spread around by the jet stream?
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:


The west coast of Africa is where the hurricane forms. How it is formed has a greater effect on its power in the western Atlantic/Caribbean than how it dies over continental USA. Once it gets to I-95 it is on its way out as it has lost the hot waters which give rise to its power.

Dose the air pollution from the USA not get up to the upper atmosphere and spread around by the jet stream?


Yes, it does but it gets diluted by the time it gets back around to West Africa. It's the "perfect storm" scenario; the large pollution source, the perfect particle size and the massive energy source coinciding in the same place at the same time leading to the perfect storm.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:


The west coast of Africa is where the hurricane forms. How it is formed has a greater effect on its power in the western Atlantic/Caribbean than how it dies over continental USA. Once it gets to I-95 it is on its way out as it has lost the hot waters which give rise to its power.

Dose the air pollution from the USA not get up to the upper atmosphere and spread around by the jet stream?


Yes, it does but it gets diluted by the time it gets back around to West Africa. It's the "perfect storm" scenario; the large pollution source, the perfect particle size and the massive energy source coinciding in the same place at the same time leading to the perfect storm.
I have to doubt the actual math considering the small fraction of each barrel of crude oil that ends up as bunker oil divided by the small faction of the worlds maritime shipping that is exhausted on the west coast of Africa.
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