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2nd referendum on Scottish independence
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't May's "now's not the time" statement mean any referendum Scotland did choose to hold anyway just wouldn't be legally binding - like the Brexit vote wasn't legally binding?
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think that unless an Act specifically passed in Westminster (either before or after) which states that the result of a vote is legally binding, the result won't be.

Although some say otherwise: eg. http://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-sovereignty-for-dummies/


Wink
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
I think the SNP have misjudged this. I don't think it is going to win much in the way of new support for independence - just makes them look rather stupid, and weak.

Theresa may rules out 2nd referendum. That's that sorted out for another 2 years, and after Brexit the SNP won't be able to lie about how independence means membership of the EU.


Agree with everything you say UE.

SNP have made a big mistake and most people are referendum fatigued and just want to get on with their ordinary lives.

I wonder if the Tories can push it out to 2021 and the SNP/Greens lose their majority in parliament, ensuring a Unionist veto on a referendum.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, if Scotland vote for independence does that mean we can send all the Scots living in England home? We could free up a lot of houses that way. We have a massive Scottish population locally who were bought down here to work at AWE over the years. That would contribute to a huge increase in housing availability locally. Wink

Seriously though, bringing all the Navy's ship production and servicing south would help unemployment here as well in areas like Portsmouth and the Isle of Wight which have been hit hard recently.
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Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what Sturgeon wants you to be saying, Kenneal! Very Happy
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Doesn't May's "now's not the time" statement mean any referendum Scotland did choose to hold anyway just wouldn't be legally binding - like the Brexit vote wasn't legally binding?


Two very different situations. Yes, Scotland could hold its own referendum, but it would be completely symbolic, because it is widely understood that the Scottish parliament lacks the power to unlaterally declare independence. That was not the case for the Brexit referendum - it may have been "advisory", but that was a technicality. Everybody understood that the result was going to be followed through on anyway, and the fact that the Remain side decided to try to pretend otherwise after they lost didn't make anyd difference.
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After having discussed this elsewhere with a nationalist, I am now of the opinion that there will be no referendum for the forseeable future.

If I was an EU negotiator, I'd be watching this situation and thinking about the possibility of Scotland leaving the UK after Brexit is up and running. And because of that, I'd make sure that whatever was agreed is conditional on Scotland remaining part of the UK. That's because the UK will be negotiating as the whole UK. Take the fisheries as an example. If the UK were to agree to allow EU access to UK fisheries, including Scotland's fisheries, as part of a Brexit deal, then how can that deal remain valid if Scotland leaves the UK? Especially if Scotland subsequently applies to rejoin the EU. And that means that it seems highly probable that the UK will find itself unable to allow Scotland an independence referendum, even if it was inclined to do so, without invalidating the Brexit agreement or triggering clauses in that agreement which are harmful to rump-UK interests. I suspect that as a result of this, there is unlikely to be another independence referendum in Scotland for at least 20 years, and maybe much longer.
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