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We're dooooomed, dooooooomed..........

 
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3323

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: We're dooooomed, dooooooomed.......... Reply with quote

History repeating itself

Quote:
But at the time people don’t realize they’re embarking on a route that will lead to a destruction period. They think they’re right, they’re cheered on by jeering angry mobs, their critics are mocked. This cycle, the one we saw for example from the Treaty of Versaille, to the rise of Hitler, to the Second World War, appears to be happening again. But as with before, most people cannot see it because:

1. They are only looking at the present, not the past or future.

2. They are only looking immediately around them, not at how events connect globally.

3. Most people don’t read, think, challenge, or hear opposing views.

Trump is doing this in America. Those of us with some oversight from history can see it happening. Read this brilliant, long essay in New York Magazine to understand how Plato described all this, and it is happening just as he predicted. Trump says he will "Make America Great Again", when in fact America is currently great, according to pretty well any statistics. He is using passion, anger, and rhetoric in the same way all his predecessors did — a charismatic narcissist who feeds on the crowd to become ever stronger, creating a cult around himself. You can blame society, politicians, the media, for America getting to the point that it’s ready for Trump, but the bigger historical picture is that history generally plays out the same way each time someone like him becomes the boss.

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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's clearly not great for a large swathe of Americans. If the statistics say it's great, then they are measuring the wrong things.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4066
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally disagree.

Trump is a populist who, if he manages to do even a bit to stop the rot, will save American democracy.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3323

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump and democracy is an oxymoron.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

If America carries on with the political status quo (e.g. Bush/Obama/Hilary) and the same set of policies which is destroying the middle class than you will see a Hitler emerging 5/10 years down the line.

A very rightwing extremist figure who will marshal the ex-middle classes against the elite.

Trump is a populist with broadly centrist views (on most subjects) and no track record of any far right political views. Trump is thus a flawed but best hope for the preservation of democracy.

Sad to see the Left incapable of understanding this.
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 693

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

America is currently great but isn't

Otherwise, why would it be ready for Trump the Dangerous?

Evil Putin is bankrolling political parties across Europe; such as the SNP as I discovered once when an american journalist was being interviewed. It was quite shocking. Luckily, he isn't

Brexit was won by a group of angry people wanting a fight. Rolling eyes

Brexit will cause far right groups to be elected accross europe. And only brexit of course as there's no other reason. Really. There are no other reasons. And anger breeds anger.

If only there were more kinder people who realised that intent trumps (!clever..like the article) consequences.

Unfortunately...

Liberal intellectuals are in the minority because they're softies (but goodies) and bad guys don't read The Guardian.

FFS I give up. That article is terrible. I actually wrote a better comment describing my annoyance but didn't submit properly. Twisted Evil I'm one of the angry people. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad the UK leaving the EU will trigger ww3. Wait and see.



Laughing to myself.

Im sorry, but that amply demonstrates the uselessness of historians.

And why does one group (the one the author would include himself in) believe they are somehow immune to manipulation by events and people/media. For example, those who support trump or voted for brexit are being manipulated. But those who don't/didn't vote brexit or trump are somehow protected from such manipulations...Arrogance.

Also, would any country in Europe not consider having Putin as leader. Surely the most impressive world leader in recent times.
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 693

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in a bad mood earlier. The article just irritated me. Embarassed
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 815

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump makes sense in the current political climate. I'd rather have Trump running around the US, as it deflects attention away from Europe. Hillary will most likely push Russia to (nearly) WW3. Let's hope Trump gets in.
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fifthcolumn



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 2525

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: We're dooooomed, dooooooomed.......... Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Paraphrasal which says "Trump is Hitler"


Actually, NO.

Putin wants to be able to prove that his narrative of "the rise of the far right" is happening in the west in order to justify himself.

And the leftist media are eagerly obliging by attempting to paint this.

Hillary's recent quip of "Trump voters are all racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, you name it" is exactly the same type of crap that Putin is desparately hoping to be true.

But it isn't true. Which of these am I? Let's see: racist no, sexist no, homophobic no, xenophobic no. Islamophobic. A little bit. I think Islamic immigration should be halted. There are plenty of other countries we can get workers from who would be willing to look after us when we're old without some small percentage of them radicalizing and doing an allahuakbar in the middle of the train station.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3323

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: We're dooooomed, dooooooomed.......... Reply with quote

fifthcolumn wrote:
woodburner wrote:
Paraphrasal which says "Trump is Hitler"


Actually, NO.

Putin wants to be able to prove that his narrative of "the rise of the far right" is happening in the west in order to justify himself.

And the leftist media are eagerly obliging by attempting to paint this.

Hillary's recent quip of "Trump voters are all racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, you name it" is exactly the same type of crap that Putin is desparately hoping to be true.

But it isn't true. Which of these am I? Let's see: racist no, sexist no, homophobic no, xenophobic no. Islamophobic. A little bit. I think Islamic immigration should be halted. There are plenty of other countries we can get workers from who would be willing to look after us when we're old without some small percentage of them radicalizing and doing an allahuakbar in the middle of the train station.


Excuse me, but where did you get this totally misleading collection of words? If you are going to claim something is sombody's quoted words, then al least make it an accurate quote, not some political spin that bears no resemblance to anything.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8528
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump is certainly no less "democratic" than Clinton. He's not the answer. He's not even Bernie Sanders. But unlike Clinton, he doesn't have his tongue up Corporate America's arse. This is purely because he inherited a vast fortune, but that doesn't stop it from being true.

Sanders can't be bought (like Corbyn).
Clinton has already been bought.
Trump doesn't need to be bought.

This is not some sort of minor technicality - it is what allowed Trump to say what he actually believes instead of what somebody else wants him to say. Even if you don't agree with what he believes, the fact that he can say it and is willing to do so is a breath of fresh air in itself. In a room full of dog farts.
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