PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Horrific solution to feeding too many people
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Living in the Future
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14232
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote:

So, why do arteries get blocked with plaque?


This is a good question. Having a look at a variety of info on wikipedia, it seems that high cholesterol is not the cause of arterial plaque, but that a high cholesterol diet may simply make it more available in the bloodstream for conversion (oxidation and eventual consumption by macrophages) to what contributes to the plaque. The reason why the lining of the arteries changes in a way that leads to this development (an inflammatory response) is not yet understood; maybe high blood glucose levels are involved, or some researchers have even suggested it might be caused by an infection!

Reading further, it seems that even the often promoted 'Mediterranean diet' might not be the reason folks there have less cardiovascular problems after all; it might just be that they get more sun!

So, while I'm sure woodburner will have more to say on this one, it seems to me that we don't really know much at all. We know what happens, but not why. Pretty amazing.


That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3721

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't explain it, I can only relate what I have read. To unerstand what goes on you have to perform mental acrobatics. Much of what is in the mainstream confuses cause with association. The books I have mentioned in previous posts are a good starting point. Some care may be needed with wiki pages as it could depend on who was the last one editing it.

I'll post another link later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:

That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).


That's very interesting. And imagine what your cholesterol levels would be if you weren't vegan! Have you tried altering your diet to see if it makes a difference? Decreasing carbs or fat, those sorts of things?
_________________
Humans are a natural disaster, tidying the world to destruction and death.


Last edited by Automaton on Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Some care may be needed with wiki pages as it could depend on who was the last one editing it.


Quite true; it's always worth reading a few related pages, as they often contradict (which I feel gives a better picture, even if a frustrating one).
_________________
Humans are a natural disaster, tidying the world to destruction and death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14232
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote:

That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).


That's very interesting. And imagine what your cholesterol levels would be if you weren't vegan! While trying not to get too personal... were you investigated for symptoms, or just because the levels were so high?


It was investigatory, based on odd pains behind the sternum. It turned out to be muscular. Lesson: get up from desk every 15 minutes and walk around!

The doctors and nurses were intrigued by my total lack of plaque, which "should" stand at around 50% blockage at my age Shocked ; they lost interest with an 'aah!' when I mentioned my diet. Laughing
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:

It was investigatory, based on odd pains behind the sternum. It turned out to be muscular. Lesson: get up from desk every 15 minutes and walk around!


Sorry, I just edited my previous post because I felt I was being a bit too personal, and you replied at the same time!

I changed it to ask if you'd tried altering your diet to lower your cholesterol levels?
_________________
Humans are a natural disaster, tidying the world to destruction and death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3721

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote:

That might partially explain why my cholesterol levels are high - possibly a familial root - but I have 100% clear arteries (known through an exploratory angiogram).


That's very interesting. And imagine what your cholesterol levels would be if you weren't vegan! Have you tried altering your diet to see if it makes a difference? Decreasing carbs or fat, those sorts of things?


Diet has very little effect on cholesterol levels.

http://youtu.be/8ls9HWRxvMo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14232
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automaton wrote:
emordnilap wrote:

It was investigatory, based on odd pains behind the sternum. It turned out to be muscular. Lesson: get up from desk every 15 minutes and walk around!


Sorry, I just edited my previous post because I felt I was being a bit too personal, and you replied at the same time!

I changed it to ask if you'd tried altering your diet to lower your cholesterol levels?


What woodburner says - my diet has no effect on cholesterol levels, 95% organic, 100% plant-based, little fried food, moderate alcohol (organic when possible) and I've no real sweet tooth. I get a fair bit of exercise, which might help: swimming, cycling, gym, work round the house, that sort of thing.

If I was actually consuming animal cholesterol it might make a difference but I don't intend to experiment.

My body produces the cholesterol it needs, which just happens to be higher than 'normal'.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:

If I was actually consuming animal cholesterol it might make a difference but I don't intend to experiment.

My body produces the cholesterol it needs, which just happens to be higher than 'normal'.


Yip, that's what I figured, I just thought it might be interesting anecdotally, given that you are a bit different from the norm.
_________________
Humans are a natural disaster, tidying the world to destruction and death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:

Diet has very little effect on cholesterol levels.

http://youtu.be/8ls9HWRxvMo


But it does have an effect, as your video link mentions. It just doesn't seem to matter (with relation to CHD, anyway, as he shows pretty clearly).

Crazy business.
_________________
Humans are a natural disaster, tidying the world to destruction and death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12595
Location: York

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it this way: heart-wise, I'm right on the edge of the possible. The care that has been lavished upon me with a view to keeping me in the Renewable state to which I am accustomed, is nothing short of awesome.

And yet at no time, in over 1/2 a century of check-ups, in the care of people in a dozen different places, has ANYBODY seen fit to measure my levels of Cholesterol, nor advise me to aim to lower them.
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
Stories
The Price of Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10478
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That says a lot about cholesterol level! Either that or about the state of knowledge of those treating you!
_________________
As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12595
Location: York

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we can safely assume they all knew what they were doing Very Happy
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
Stories
The Price of Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3721

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were probably looking after you rather than looking after maximising their practice's income.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18544
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to an article in today's New Scientist one biome (gut bacteria) are affected by some 67 so far identified things including one's preference for dark or milk chocolate. I extrapolate unwarrantedly from the research to say that dark chocolate is what my bugs prefer and I'm happy to oblige them.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Living in the Future All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group